this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2024
14 points (61.7% liked)
United States | News & Politics
7239 readers
603 users here now
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Neither does Republican, right?
Didn't Trump say that Israel should just "finish the job"?
What job is there to finish? Biden already flattened Gaza.
2M people live in Gaza. The death toll according to the Gaza Health Ministry is nearly 41,000.
The point I'm trying to make is that given what Trump has said about Gaza and Palestine in general, what reason do we have to believe that 41,000 won't turn into 410,000 under a Trump presidency?
The confirmed death toll is 41.000
The estimated death toll according to Lancet medial magazine is 180.000.
Combined with all the long term effects and sicknesses this Genocide will have on the Palestinians
I see no indication Trump will be any worse than the Democrats for Palestinians. Only more honest about his policy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/27/trump-donors-israel-gaza-palestinian-protests
Under a Trump administration, he's openly said he would be prepared to use police and even the military to crush pro-Palestinian protests in America-- protests that, under the current administration, largely haven't been shut down by police and military sent in as a result of the Biden administration. Biden/Harris are from from perfect but why are we going to pretend that there would be no difference between their administration largely doing nothing to shut down pro-Palestinian protesters vs Trump openly saying he's crush the protests?
Can I ask you why you believe the overwhelming majority of Muslims in America have voted for Biden over Trump, and will vote Harris over Trump? Because damn near every Muslim American I know who is pro-Palestinian is voting for Harris come November despite knowing she's far from perfect.
Words mean nothing. The Democrats have done far more damage to Palestine than I ever expected Trump to do.
You are still under the illusion that Democrats aren't fully suporting the Genocide and annexation of the West Bank while Democrats are about to start WW3 to appease Netanyahu.
Trump promises big talk and under delivers. You seem to repeat his every word when it's threats but when it's promises you realize he always exaggerates. He will be the same as the Democrats.
Didn't Trump just try to actively meddle and stop a ceasefire agreement last night between Netanyahu and the Dems? And we're still pretend they're the same?
Do folks like you ever wonder why most Muslims would never vote Trump?
I have a bridge to sell you
The Gaza Health Ministry was bombed into being non-functional months ago. The 'official' number has been frozen so long that even the genociders have begun to cling to it because it's such an obvious undercount.
I believe so, yes.
Nope, both want genocide. When do we start considering rejecting both entirely?
Once we get representational voting instead of first past the post. As long as we have first past the post, we vote for the not fascist, then we work at a local level.
They have that voting system in both Japan and Australia, doesn't make a bit of difference, still capitalist dictatorships. Australia is also still carrying out their eviction of its indigenous peoples under that system, just like the US.
So never, got it. Glad we can reconfirm that liberals will never actually push for change, just virtue signal and go to brunch until it's time to vote again.
Or, vote locally, get involved with local politics and push for change. Get representative voting locally, and push it up from grass roots. But you'd rather Trump win.
Local elections matter far more than federal elections, sure. "Push for change" is just vibes, do you mean asking reps politely? Historically that doesn't really work at enacting major change.
Why do you think this would work? When has reformism worked?
Nope. Saying the Dems are merely the more moderate face of a genocidal empire doesn't mean I want the GOP. Both parties form the evil empire.
I mean, either campaign for, run for, or vote for local officials that boost rank-choice-voting. Get your county to apply it. Then push for your state. Then we'll work on the country. But until then, vote Democrat for president so that Trump doesn't take away your vote, and we can keep working at it.
Sorry my blue/red local officials don't want rank choice voting, but I have to vote for one of them according to you, so what do I do?
At a local level? Run for office. At a local level you only have to convince a few hundred people to vote for you. I (repeatedly) told you it's only black and white at the president level. There is not enough support to get a third party president yet. So build up support by building your party through local positions.
Why do you think politicians would hurt their power and damage their donors?
How? Why would representatives change?
Seems I don't have a vote either way, and it's more important to build up dual power to eventually replace this wretched system.
It seems like you've decided you are powerless, so you are. You don't want to work at a local level to build up third parties who would agree with your policies. You just want to whine on the internet. So I'm done. Enjoy your whining.
There are third parties that share my values, like PSL, who are on the ballot for many states or can be written in elsewhere. You just told me to vote dem, though, now you're telling me to vote third party?
I'm not powerless, the fact that you think voting is the only expression of political power means you have no historical context.
I gotta ask, do you ever ask yourself why Republicans rabidly do everything they can to stop felons from voting, but are unusually A-OK with folks voting for third parties like RFK, Jill Stein (who is clearly a Russian stooge), etc? Have you considered that Republicans generally view third parties as favorable, albeit unknowingly allies who historically siphon more Dem votes than Republican votes?
Because in my experience talking to folks like yourself, there's seemingly little to no consideration at all that you're being used by Republicans to help aid their victory even though this is an established tactic they've used for decades.
I didn't say I should vote third party, they did. My point is that we cannot solve our problems electorally, and I proved it by saying the third party they said I should build up already exists.
There's no consideration because leftists are the enemy of right-wingers, dem or rep flavor, and the path to leftist victory is not at the ballot box.
There are third parties that agree with me, such as PSL. They're even on the ballot in many states. You just told me to vote dem though, meaning you aren't telling me to vote third party anyways.
For the president. We need a coalition of antifascists to beat Trump. Locally? State level? He'll, for the nomination? Go third party, and God bless. I desperately hope that politics swing left, and soon. Medicare for all, support for Palestine, women's right to healthcare, LGBTQ+ rights, trans rights, investment in green energy, education and infrastructure, taxing billionaires, and UBI to fight automation and AI (although UBS is better to keep the UBI from just ending up in the riches pocket). But this year? I'm getting behind Harris. She's a step towards that. Trump is a huge step towards fascism. Harris isn't perfect, but the left NEEDS to see she is materially better than someone saying that Christian fundamentalists won't ever have to vote again.
The Wiemar Republic had a parliamentary system
Then what do you suggest? What government or form of representation has had no atrocities?
Your question makes as much sense as asking what font has never had hate speech written in it.
Sorry, I inferred from your comment that you're saying that it's not worth trying to pursue ranked choice voting because Hitler was elected I'm a similar system. I thought this was idiotic, since all forms of government have led to horrible acts of violence in one country or another, so I asked what government you would support under that condition. If I misconstrued your point, then illuminate me. What does your comment mean?
And yet your solution is to tweak voting slightly.
The issue isn't what form the government takes, it's who the ruling class is. No matter what reforms you apply to the system it's just going to be the same people producing the same outcomes because of the same built in interests.
And yet, you continue to not provide any solutions at all. 🤷♂️
If the problem you want to solve is fixing the US government so that it obeys the will of the people then no, you're never going to get a workable solution from anyone.
Still I hear no better recommendations from you.
You're not very smart
At least I don't argue on the internet while having no solutions like you do.
That's exactly what you're doing, dipshit. You even said so in your own words.
Incorrect! I have a solution, while you still do not sweetheart. 😘
You have a solution that you explicitly admitted wouldn't solve anything. You couldn't be a more stereotypical trash liberal.
I never said that it wouldn't solve anything. I believe that this is a path to a better country with more progressive policies. You say that it will not, so I asked for a different solution. You have no solution so you just cry like a whiny baby. You're either very immature or you're a very hurt person. BUT... either way you have no solution. You offer nothing but complaints. Offer solutions, and we can discuss them.
Yeah you did. Fucking moron lol. You did it in the middle of trying to call me an idiot because in your words: "I thought this was idiotic, since all forms of government have led to horrible acts of violence in one country or another, so I asked what government you would support." I made the very bland and obvious observation that you were being an idiot doing doublespeak. Your solution is some minor procedural tweak and yet you forcefully insist that no government system is free of the problem you propose a solution for. Very stupid.
And because you have a child's brain you instantly managed to convince yourself that this conversation is about you demanding solutions from me, and you've been having that tantrum since.
You're welcome for the reminder of where you are and what you're doing. Please ask someone else if you need help tying your shoes or wiping your ass. Loser.
Again, that is your proposal. I'm literally calling the idea you're claiming I support idiotic, and asking you for something of substance rather than you just throwing out "the Nazis voted". Since that post that you quoted, I've been asking if you have anything of substance to say, but you don't. I hope for your sake English is your second language, or you have yet to start high school, because your reading comprehension is rudimentary at best.
But, at this point, I'm gonna block you. You have nothing to say, and I'm convinced anyone else with the patience to read through your replies will see that too. Good luck being a doomer edge lord with no solutions.
No, moron, it's not. Do you need me to help you read the thread you're responding to again?