this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2024
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Tbh, being woke and being in a mob are not going to go together well.
You'd either have just a big group of people protesting peacefully, or you'd have a revolution which is far from a mob in any typical sense of the word.
Remember, "woke" started as a term for awareness of systemic inequality. It doesn't directly equate to mob action in that sense, though it could involve large scale direct action which could involve the kind of action you'd think of as anything from "unrest" up to rioting, depending on the situation.
Woke in the sense that it has come to also mean is basically taking the awareness of social inequities and working to change them. This is typically not a position held by the kind of extremists that would form a mob in the usual sense. You get into people that want to overturn the system entirely, and they tend to be following some specific set of beliefs that are the goal, with any inequities being a side goal or just a part of those beliefs.
But the way the conservative, fascist, and far right twits use the term, they're just moving words around the way they used to whine about being politically correct, and before that whined because they couldn't be openly racist or otherwise bigoted. Now, this is opposed to the above mentioned categories that aren't twits, who use the word woke as a dog whistle intentionally as a way to manipulate the twits.
Don't forget, being a bigot and fascist doesn't actually mean a lack of brain power. Trying to pretend otherwise underestimates a very dangerous group of enemies that literally want to return us to a state where only white men hold power at all. Underestimating an enemy that dangerous gives them freedom to succeed.
Interesting. So the radical left in general wouldn't be woke by this definition?
Not in my opinion, no.
Being a semi-radical leftist, I can't call myself woke at all, since I believe the entire system needs to be taken apart and rebuilt from the ground up. That's regardless of inequalities. The farther left you get, the less you find people that genuinely care about egalitarian goals at all. The really extreme left is batshit crazy, and essentially wants a fascist state, just with them in charge.
You'll see a lot of lip service about systemic bigotry and imbalance, but not much in the way of thinking inclusively. There are radicals on the left that do view socialism, anarchism, or related ideologies as the answer to systemic inequality, but to call them woke would be a stretch.
If you ever get into attempts at radical change via direct action, you'll run into people that are technically not racist or bigoted, but only because they're monomaniacal to such an extent that they genuinely think they know better and will do better, despite working from a classical place of white privilege that assumes too much. They inhabit the same place mentally as the rich white bastards that are one of the things being woke wakens you to. Can't be woke if you're still wanting to force oppressed groups to do what you want, often because "they don't know better".
That last is in quotes because it's an actual quote I have heard way too often to be willing to deal with the seriously far left. You're sitting there, in a group of a few dozen people, and there's only white, male faces. You bring it up, you ask about how the revolution will address people of color or women and work to recruit them to the cause, and all of a sudden, you're the outsider. "Black people don't have the numbers to be useful." "Women don't have the will to fight." "The blacks are brain washed by christianity and capitalism."
Those are direct quotes from real people. I've never been able to forget that specific meeting because it majorly changed how I approach working with other people that want revolution. Some people really just want the world to burn, and will latch onto whatever they can find to get them there.
I know there are plenty of non white male people that are left wing enough to be called radical, but the lefter you go, the less you see of them.
Which is all more than what you asked, but I wanted to explain why I hold the opinion. It's direct personal experience.
I found this very interesting. Thanks for adding all that.
No worries :)
That's interesting. It's also my experience that the far left is saturated with defective personalities (and hearing someone else say it is affirming, thank you). I can't imagine most of those people giving the quotes supplied, though. How long ago are you remembering back?
Before someone says "what are you doing then", I'm still doing stuff. I do volunteer work with mainstream parties, and while the pace of improvement is glacial, it actually sticks instead of exploding into terminal infighting drama.
That specific meeting was in 98. But I had been increasing my interest and activity in socialist change for about two years at that point.
After that, I backed away from that specific set of beliefs while I reevaluated exactly what kind of change was really needed, and how it should be achieved.
I ended up less radical, and a little less focused on the exact dogma, while shifting towards more of a hope of the kind of social structure that some of the nordic countries have going. But I still think that the U.S. is going to require a non peaceful revolution to pull us back from the brink of fascism. I hope a peaceful revolution is possible, very, very much.
But I've also seen what you said, that the general left is too prone to infighting. And there's a ton of lip service without the willingness to sacrifice comfort.
That's why I tend to focus my limited resources towards reform in practice. I just don't see an actual revolution, peaceful or otherwise, happening in my lifetime.
Ah. Yes, things changed a lot over the next couple decades. The last anti-idpole people were just being purged right as I became aware of goings-on in the community. I'm glad it went that way instead of the other, and people of all sorts were in the room, but in the end the exact extent of acceptance became a new thing to fight over. Is furry stuff a fetish or a type of queer identity? Is vegetarianism anti-indigenous? Are poor, conservative white people potential converts, or something like Marx's "petty bourgeoisie"? What about, like, Hindu traditionalists? These would all be good things to hash out, but polite debate is not valued.
Man, I wish Lemmy had a follow user feature. It sounds like you went through some of the same stuff I did but in gen X times.
Also, heads up that this instance is run by the Lemmy developers, who happen to be very active members of the far left. They can be ban-happy sometimes.