this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2024
46 points (77.4% liked)

No Stupid Questions

36047 readers
2946 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I'm someone who believes landlording (and investing in property outside of just the one you live in) is immoral, because it makes it harder for other people to afford a home, and takes what should be a human right, and turns it into an investment.

At the same time, It's highly unlikely that I'll ever be able to own a home without investing my money.

And just investing in stocks means I won't have a diversified portfolio that could resist a financial crash as much as real estate can.

If I were to invest fractionally in real estate, say, through REITs, would it not be as immoral as landlording if I were to later sell all my shares of the REIT in order to buy my own home?

I personally think investing in general is usually immoral to some degree, since it relies on the exploitation of other's labour, but at the same time, it feels more like I'm buying back my own lost labour value, rather than solely exploiting others.

I'm curious how any of you might see this as it applies to real estate, so feel free to discuss :)

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

So the government is your landlord then?

[–] Fondots 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

They effectively already are, stop paying property taxes on a property that you own and see what happens. They get to set all kinds of restrictions on what you can do with your property, how and when.

Sounds a lot like a landlord to me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Having rented before and now owning my own house I can gurantee you that there's a major difference in the freedom between those two.

You think homeowners should not be required to pay property tax and build whatever they want on their property disregarding all safety regulations and building codes? I can definitely see how that would go horribly wrong..

[–] Fondots 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I'm also a former renter, current homeowner, and you certainly get more freedom as a homeowner than you normally would as a renter (although you do sometimes hit the jackpot with a landlord who will let you do anything you want to your rental) but it's not absolute freedom.

The second half of your comment though, is putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. I agree with building codes, safety regulations, permits, etc. I certainly don't trust the morons living next door to me to not blow their house up and mine along with it because they tried to service their own gas line, and I'm willing to give up that bit of freedom for myself because the benefits outweigh the inconvenience.

I am, however, not a fan of property taxes, because I'd like to know that if I someday end up disabled, lose my job, and broke, I'd like to know I'd at least be able tocount on having a roof over my head even if I can't afford to keep the heat and lights on, it would keep me out of the elements and provide some physical security. I like everything those property taxes pay for, but I want it to come out of income taxes.

There's also of course the issue of things like eminent domain and civil asset forfeiture. If the government can just take your home away from you, how real is your ownership of it? Just like how a landlord can decide to evict you or sell the property at any time, sure there's a process they need to go through, but the government has hoops to jump through when they do it as well.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I don't know where you live but the property tax on my house is 200€ a year which is less than half of what I spend on groceries every month. If I end up disabled and without a job, the property tax, from a financial perspective would be among the least of my worries.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

In the USA, property taxes are how most towns and cities get the majority of their funding. 200€/year would be crazy low.

In my medium cost of living town (USA), taxes come out to 4, sometimes 5 figures a year. Plus as the area becomes more desirable, property taxes (based on the sale price of a home) go up for recent buyers.

[–] Fondots 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

And how crushing would it be if you have no food, no money, no job, and not even a safe place that you're just allowed to exist for want of $200?

Also the taxes in my area, which isn't even a particularly expensive area for the US are something like 10x that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well debate about wether taxes are good or not are a whole another discussion. I live in a wellfare state myself so I don't mind the relatively high taxes I'm paying because I've benefited from what the government spends it on my whole life and continue to benefit in the future as well, not to even mention the people less fortunate than me.

If you're broke, disabled and unable to provide for yourself the government will provide you with an apartment and money for food. 200€ a year is pennies compared to the benefits people like this are receiving.

[–] Fondots 1 points 3 months ago

But if it weren't for property taxes, the government wouldn't need to provide me a place to live as a homeowner, every penny of welfare I would need could go to food, utilities, etc. and that frees up the government provided housing for those who don't already have a place to live.

And again, I'm not anti tax, just anti property tax, raise the sales taxes, income taxes, etc. to cover things, especially on the wealthy, my house isn't making me any money until I sell it, so why should I be taxed on it like it is?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

As a government employee, I have rented from the government (USA) many times over the years. It is a pretty good deal usually. It includes utilities almost always. Sometimes the house is really bad but usually they are ok, and the price per month (they do it by day) is pretty good.