this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2024
794 points (98.8% liked)

World News

39174 readers
3898 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 
  • Ukrainian forces launched a surprise offensive into Russia's Kursk region last Tuesday.
  • They have captured around 1,000 square kilometers of Russian land so far, Kyiv's top general said.
  • That figure is almost as much territory as Russia has seized in Ukraine this year.
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] undergroundoverground 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Most historians I've read consider ww1 to have had a far greater evolution, starting with napoleonic tactics and ending with rolling artillery barrages and tanks.

However, I'm not sure of the point you're looking to make here. I mean, the polish army sending cavalry against the germans was an act of wild desperation. I think thats the point they were making there.

[–] rottingleaf 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

starting with napoleonic tactics and ending with rolling artillery barrages and tanks.

Strictly speaking, just like in any war, they've just forgotten\ignored most of wisdom present in all wars since Sargon the Great. As humans always do.

Specifically, say, human wave attacks at entrenched positions with machine guns were not a thing of somebody not understanding the results. There were plenty of works written at that point about what warfare should be, it's just that their authors wouldn't get promotions in peacetime. Actual commanders had plenty of lives at their disposal without any particular responsibility for those and needed to report some successes. Existential wars between European nations were a forgotten thing, they were either not existential or against a technologically outclassed enemy, so having such people in charge was fine until WWI itself.

But that's not what I meant, I meant that WWII has that peculiar trait that one of the sides (the one that started the show) was actually properly organized before gaining experience through many deaths. Like 3 critical rolls in a row in DnD, one can say. That's how they managed to wreak such havoc.

I know that actual contact use of cavalry was obsolete.

[–] undergroundoverground 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Its strange, you reply with the appearance of disagreeing but then say things that don't refute anything I've said and that I broadly agree with.

For sure and even before machine guns, there's examples of that like the seige of Badajoz which, for its time, was brutal (Napoleonic - like 5k in an hour or something).

To me though, and apologies if you know already, at the Battle of the somme the British army believed the germans to already be dread after days of shelling. As well as this, the many of the british troops were so poorly trained that they ordered mass sections to literally March, with their arms locked out in front of them with the barrel of their rifle pointing upwards, right at German machine guns hoping to charge at the end. Thats literally napoleonic tactics, only they were all "rifles" or light infantry, so they formed skirmishers lines instead of columns. The British artillery stopped shooting for the advance, so that they didn't shoot their own troops.

By the end of the war, soldiers huddled behind tanks advancing behind a rolling barage. The germans just did it on mass and had the armour more concentrated. One of the reasons they jumped so far ahead is the hard lessons they had suffered towards the end of the war. I mean, it was still a blood bath for everyone but for them it was an even worse blood bath. So, I agree very much with what you're saying.

My only point I'm making about the speed of change in warfare, to my understanding, is even greater still in ww1.

[–] rottingleaf 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I wasn't really disagreeing. Except that guy who wrote as if using horses was something wrong. It's often not a bad idea even today, especially in mountains.

[–] undergroundoverground 2 points 3 months ago

Fair enough, that makes way more sense.

I think they meant front line cavalry which, tbf, they should have specified.

For sure, I think horses, donkys and mules are still the best way to carry large supplies for fighting deep in jungles too. Well, outside of helicopters but they're not ad good at hiding under the jungle canopy. So, I 100% agree. I was just letting you know.