Honestly, I'm kind of baffled by the opposite; when people are committed to their family for family's sake even when they're abusive. Putting the concept of family on a pedestal to the point of self-destruction never made much sense to me, there needs to be a limit for any relationship, family or not.

The reality has just been more starkly revealed in the US that many people care more about their religion and political allegiance than who their family truly are as people.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They're both wrong.

Parents owe undying love and loyalty to their kids. Kids don't owe their parents shit. If the parents did a good job, their kids will want to support them on their own. If you need to pressure kids into loving their parents, then abuse or neglect has already occurred.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (2 children)

That's not necessarily true. Personality disorders exist, as does addiction, as does kids growing up into assholes. I've raised 5 kids and I can tell you parents have a lot less control over who their kids turn out to be than you suggest.

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Personally, I believe parents are responsible. Outside cases of rape, they make the conscious decision to bring you in. That's not to say patents can't earnestly offer their absolute best and it not be enough for a number of reasons. Though you should always take culpability for being nieve enough to believe this world is kind enough for another when you can't guarantee it.

[+] [email protected] -22 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Personality disorders are caused by child abuse. If your kid develops BPD "out of nowhere", it's your own fault for not loving them enough as a kid.

Addiction is forgivable if caused by poverty, but not if caused by the parents. Healthy people are a lot more resistant to addiction. Children use drugs to escape when you've made their lives miserable.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Some personality disorders are caused by trauma and abuse.

Some trauma and abuse are caused by parents.

The world is big and you are being a narrow-minded asshole with this kind of comment that confidently places blame on people you don’t know for things you don’t know about.

[+] [email protected] -15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Okay, let me explain what just happened to you:

I said parents owe their kids undying love, and kids don't have to love their parents.

You said "Nuh uh, I don't have to love my kids if they get a mental illness"

Or maybe you didn't. Maybe you actually meant "Nuh uh, my kids owe me love if they get a mental illness"

Either way, you decided to follow this behaviour up by trying to take the moral high ground. For some arcane reason.

Now listen, I know an adult with a PD, just one, who says his parents never abused him. And he loves them. And I know two dozen who were abused, and loathe their parents. Let's try and spot the correlation, shall we?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No, it went like this:

You said, “all child personality problems are caused by parents”

and I said “no they are not, and further, you are an asshole for claiming that”

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Love you yourself say correlation, because there may be one. Causation however is what you imply and that's not necessarily the case here.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm sorry if that's your experience, but it's definitely not universally true. We are doing everything we can for our 14 year old, with some success thanks to modern medicine, but she is diagnosed with BPD.

My 12 year old probably has more trauma and gets less attention because of how much time and effort my 14 year old takes, and she is very well-balanced.

It's not as simple as you're trying to make it.

[+] [email protected] -11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, I was the well adjusted kid in a family just like yours. The self-sufficient one, who was well behaved, never did drugs, never broke the law. I had the BPD sibling who caused our parents no end of grief. Threatened me with a knife several times too. You know what I realised around the time I turned 18? I didn't love my parents. I was just going through the motions. I never knew love until I was an adult.

We all thought my sibling was just being difficult. We all thought that my parents were doing everything they could. Nah, I know better now. I got a personality disorder too after I turned 20. Mine was just dormant for longer. Fuck my parents.

Family just like yours.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

There's not much more I can do. I spend as much time with them as they will let me. My 12 year old is super independent, but we do have some great conversations later after everyone else is in bed. She and I built a table from scratch together - to the extent she would let me help. I actually love spending time with her when she'll tolerate me. If things go badly for her, it will not be due to abuse or lack of love.

I don't have that same relationship with my 14 year old because I can't, but I sure would if I could.

I'm not trying to absolve your parents for what you went through. I'm genuinely sorry for how things went for you. I can see with my own eyes how hard it is to be that kid and I feel terrible that you had to go through it. All I can say is people have other experiences.

[–] Angry_Autist 2 points 4 months ago

There can be organic sources. Yes my parents were shit to me when I was a kid but that didn't give me IED, I had IED and autism WHILE they were being abusive and that gave me ptsd and depression.

So not all kids problems are parent caused.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Indeed. Plenty of bad factors on both sides.