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lawrence

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Loyalty to the flag (lemmy.world)

submitted 4 months ago by lawrence to c/comicstrips

180 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Author's website: www.piecomic.com

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

The First Ammendemnt protects your right to not participate in reciting the pledge of allegiance:

In 2006, in the Florida case Frazier v. Alexandre, a federal district court in Florida ruled that a 1942 state law requiring students to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance violates the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. As a result of that decision, a Florida school district was ordered to pay $32,500 to a student who chose not to say the pledge and was ridiculed and called "unpatriotic" by a teacher.

In 2009, a Montgomery County, Maryland, teacher berated and had school police remove a 13-year-old girl who refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom. The student's mother, assisted by the American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland, sought and received an apology from the teacher, as state law and the school's student handbook both prohibit students from being forced to recite the Pledge. reference

You might suffer some immediate consequences from ignorant people, but courts have repeatedly upheld that this is protected by the First Amendment. Even the current Supreme Court would have a hard time justifying overturning this precedent.

You could even argue that choosing not to participate is a highly patriotic act, as an exercise of your Constitutional rights as a citizen.

[–] Anti_Face_Weapon 22 points 4 months ago

I've always viewed not participating to be patriotic. You are under no obligation to provide oaths to this country, and refusing to do so under peer pressure is can be an act of patriotism.

[–] JusticeForPorygon 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There's always that one teacher...

Or at least there was in my case

[–] Anti_Face_Weapon 19 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If a teacher punishes you then they are violating you're enumerated constitutional rights. You could litterally sue them or the school administration and you could get money.

[–] FuglyDuck 8 points 4 months ago

Kids don’t know that though. The k ly way it gets found out is if it escalates enough to involve the parents

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If you can afford to go to court and if you have proof.

[–] JusticeForPorygon 4 points 4 months ago

Lotta people seem to miss this part

[–] Anti_Face_Weapon 2 points 4 months ago

The classroom full of witnesses?

There are many lawyers who would take a case like this without up front payment in exchange for a portion of the settlement.

[–] FlyingSquid 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I got fucking nuclear on my daughter's 6th grade permanent "substitute" teacher for taking my daughter out in the hallway and lecturing her when she refused to say the pledge. I didn't prompt my daughter to not say the pledge, she just decided not to because, in her words at the time, "it's stupid to say a pledge to a flag." And my daughter is not one who is easy to get to do something she thinks is incredibly stupid. Sent her multiple links about West Virginia v. Barnette and the like.

She apologized to me (not my daughter) and also lied that taking her into the hall and giving her a private talk wasn't a punishment, but my daughter didn't have to say the pledge anymore. She told me other kids also refused to once she did, but whether that means one or ten, I don't know.

As for that teacher, I found out after the school year was over that she was telling the kids that Trump really won the 2020 election and it was all a big hoax. I would have once again gone nuclear, that time at the school system, but she had already quit for a job at a private Christian school.

By the way, this woman's previous teaching credentials were "running a children's theater." Indiana sucks.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The massive exodus of teaching staff sucks

[–] FlyingSquid 4 points 4 months ago

I wish I could blame them, but I can't. Between this state's bigoted and draconian policies about what teachers can and can't say and the ridiculously low pay, I wouldn't stick around either.

Indiana does have the Indiana Connections Academy, which is an online public school where accredited teachers give instruction vie videoconference (and private chat if necessary). My daughter is in it and doing really well. Since it's a public school, we don't have to pay for her to go, but I did have to stop working in order to put her through it because it requires an adult to be a "learning coach" to keep your kid on track.

We put her in it for other reasons, but the difference in education quality is like night and day. I'm sure in no small part because the teachers are paid well. Or well for Indiana anyway.

Unfortunately, the program is run by Pierson, and they're evil, but all the kids are using Pierson textbooks in public schools anyway since Pierson has a near monopoly.