this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
89 points (73.8% liked)

politics

19148 readers
4073 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Activists from around the country told The Intercept that they will advocate for an anti-war agenda at the convention in August and withhold their vote in November unless an adequate candidate steps up, listing policy priorities such as support for a permanent ceasefire and standing up to the pro-Israel lobby as it intervenes in Democratic primaries. Even as the Biden campaign insists that he will not step aside, many Democrats appear to be lining up behind Vice President Kamala Harris as an alternative candidate, with some Democratic governors being floated as well.

“My number one criteria for any candidate is opposing the genocide in Gaza,” said Saad Farooq, an uncommitted voter in Massachusetts. Farooq said it was unlikely that the Democratic National Committee would select any candidate who took a stance against Israel’s ongoing war, and that he would support Green Party candidate Jill Stein if she were to appear on the ballot in Massachusetts.

Will Dawson, an uncommitted voter in Washington, D.C., named several factors that could get him to switch his vote from the Green Party’s Stein to another politician. First on his list is a promise to call for an immediate ceasefire and fighting the influence of the pro-Israel lobby and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee in Congress.

“This candidate would also ideally work toward pulling further away from the Israeli colonial project over time, with the goal being repealing our absurd financial support, ending the foreign interest agency of AIPAC, and pushing for a nation-wide boycott a la [South Africa] during their apartheid,” Dawson wrote.

The candidate would also have to push to reform the Supreme Court, he added. “The candidate would have to promise to both push for justice impeachment, and expand the courts,” Dawson said.“If a replacement candidate met both of these requirements, I would absolutely consider switching my vote from Jill Stein. Hell, I might even knock doors/canvass for them!”

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

It doesn't come from the poll, it comes from an analysis of the results of the poll.

Also, if your best candidate is polling at the same level as an unknown, generic member of the same party, then your best candidate is a nobody.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Just as a devils advocate when we talk about replacing Biden at this late stage.

Since the advent of the modern primary election system in 1972, an incumbent president has never been defeated by a primary challenger, though every president who faced a strong primary challenge went on to be defeated in the general election.

Source: Primary challenge

Swapping Biden out to find someone that can poll better than a guy who plans to end elections, setup death camps, take away all reproductive rights (abortion, birth control, IVF), as well as rolling back LGBTQ+ rights, shouldn't even be an issue. Unless you're part of the cult, it seems like an easy choice between freedom, or the fall of the Republic.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I was using the same language as the OP when referring to the poll, but if you feel better about yourself now good job.

You draw a pretty extreme conclusion about the polling of a generic candidate. Honestly it sounds like another specious conclusion that's been drawn because it agrees with a bias. I'm open to being wring and am interested in how you came up with it.

This CNN article has some pretty interesting discussion about generic candidates. The general consensus seems to be that generic candidates simply indicate a party preference rather than a judgment about a particular candidate.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Another specious conclusion?

The polls' own graphics show Trump losing two points to the "undecided" category in head-to-heads with most other candidates after the debate, and most of those alternative Democrats are only polling one point behind Biden.

I can understand the DNC being reluctant to switch candidates for a net polling gain of a single percentage point, but the fact that they aren't fighting tooth and nail for every single vote they can swing is why I'm confident that they'll be throwing this election just like they did eight years ago.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think I see what you're trying to say. You're saying "the best candidates are the unknown people, the nobodies, because Trump is getting 46% to 47% of the vote against them, rather than the 48% he's getting against Biden".

I drew the specious conclusion that you were refering to Joe Biden as the best candidate because he is polling the highest among candidates (tied with Harris) at 45%, has nearly the same margin of victory against Trump as all other candidates (2%-3%), has beaten Trump already, already has a massive campaign infrastructure, and is the current nominee.

On your last comment, more important than Donald Trump losing 2% to "Not Sure" is the fact that he's still beating all the candidates by 2%-3%. Without more information the best assumption we can make is that the undecided voters will vote the same as the decided voters once they have enough information.

As I said before, the only real conclusions we can draw with certainty from these polls is fewer people know who these candidates are than know Joe Biden.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

The uncertainty of a larger undecided pool is exactly what the DNC needs right now.

As it stands, there's very little to suggest that my 2016 prediction that Trump would take back the presidency this year is incorrect. Biden isn't doing any better than Hillary was at this time in the campaign cycle.

We need to get back to the point of not being able to tell who is going to win before we can swing it the other way, and switching from the candidate polling at -3 to either of the -2s puts us a third of the way there and gives us almost 50% more undecided voters to work on at the same time.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

That's a reasonable take and I appreciate you taking the time to share. I can see your point that increasing the uncertainty means that the new DNC candidate has an opportunity to pick up a larger share once the unsure voters pick. This seems like a sort of mutated version of the gamblers fallacy to me.

Having a larger uncertainty pool doesn't really provide any advantage for Democrats. While theres opportunity for the DNC candidate to pick up votes from this pool of voters there's also opportunity for Trump to pick up votes once they know more about the other candidates.

Without more information the most likely outcome is Trump picks up about 51.5% of undecided voters and the other candidate picks up about 48.5%. If we know why these voters are unsure then we can make a more educated guess about how they might vote for each candidate and we might be able to say the DNC candidate will pick up the required votes.

Unfortunately we don't know why they're unsure so saying that the best thing Biden can do is drop out just isn't supported by the information available.

On a personal note I think Biden should announce he's old and tired and just doesn't have 4 more years of being president in him. After that drop out of the campaign, endorse another candidate, and announce a clear plan for how the DNC is going to actually select the next candidate.

If he doesn't make it extremely clear that dropping out his decision, or there's no clear and transparant plan on how the next candidate will be selected, then it's going to start a civil war in the DNC that will hand the presidency to Trump.