this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2024
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I’m a little fuzzy on exactly what Zionism is, so I just don’t talk about it, rather than saying something accidentally racist, and/or making an ass of myself.
Someone correct me if im wrong, but Zionism is Isreali radical nationalism, their primary goal is the creation of a Jewish ethno-state in current isreal and palestine.
The Youtuber Shaun has a great video going through the history of the conflict and Zionism: https://youtu.be/3xottY-7m3k
You are mostly there. One of the most important notes is that the project is settler colonial, and it is also helpful to point out that zionism is older than Israel, and it has been around for over 100 years.
+1 on that Shaun vid, it’s great
Yea sorry, the creation of an ethno-state in palestine through colonialism. I did not know that its older than isreal though, good to know.
And shauns vids are top tier lol.
Any kind of Israeli nationalism can be zionism, doesn't need to be radical.
I like this approach. I wish more people would be honest about the limits of their arguments instead of just saying whatever they think will help them 'win'.
Thank you. It’s the result of hard earned experience!
Zionism is basically the belief that Jewish people deserve to own Palestine/Jerusalem ("Zion") and that non-Jews should be ethnically cleansed from "Zion" (the Nakba)
The second part of your definition definitely isnt true for all forms of Zionism. Zionism is as broad of a political ideology as liberalism, conservativism or communism is. Some zionists will agree with that, some won't or "soften" it to "we'll let them stay as second class citizens lol"
Yeah no. Jewish Israeli people can live in Palestine, with the Arabs they're trying to displace, like Jews have for thousands of years before modern Israel existed. Israel is inherently, and has always been, an apartheid ethnostate and has no reason nor right to exist. Israeli nationalism is a bad thing and Israel's entire purpose is Jewish supremacy. If you remove the "ethnostate" aspect of Israel, you don't have Israel; there is no Israel without either apartheid or genocide of non-Jews.
Israel has no right to exist. No state really has any right to exist, but Israel's existence is especially bad. It should be dissolved. That doesn't mean displacement of the people that live there, that means the replacement of the Israeli state.
There are plenty of Israelis who were adults when Israel was founded, and participated in the extermination of Arabs during the colonial occupation, and cheered on the theft of their lands. They form the foundation of Israeli society, and most of the non-Arab Israeli populace still encourages the oppression and genocide of Arabs. I do not believe any individual who cheers on the genocide of the peoples their great-grandparents recently stole the lives of should have the "right" to live on the recently stolen land.
I don't really use the term myself because I find it too vague. People shift what they mean when they use it so I stick to the actual concepts I'm discussing. The existence of a state for Jews and apartheid settler colonialism are morally polls apart.