this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
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Oh, here I thought my argument was something else.
It's funny, though, because when you emphasize that Trump can't be allowed to win, the chorus of the MLs and their defenders is "HE CAN'T JUST BE NOT TRUMP, THE LESSER EVIL IS STILL EVIL".
I'm not trying to attract MLs. MLs and their useful idiots are lost causes. This isn't about convincing people who are already set in their ways - it's about warding off the braindead points of propagandists so everyone can see what they are before making the mistake of buying in.
"I'm allowed to call people idiots, fascists, etc. basically daily because I can justify it." Everyone willing to dehumanize and denigrate others has what they believe to be validating reasons. I can't stop you from trying to win people over by insulting everyone who disagrees, but I wanted to be a voice asking for kinder, calmer discourse a la the Bernie video I posted.
I can read your post history. I'm getting tired making the same point but insults are, as near as I can tell, your go-to and I don't even know if you try anything else. You've insulted people disagreeing with you several times just today. I mean, look at how dismissive you are (kindness doesn't work, flower power) of me and Senator Sander's approach of using calmly delivered facts to win over those who will likely decide the upcoming election. It's an attempt to make sure people are convinced you are a true defender of democracy and that your modus operandi of attacks are the only reasonable way to do it properly.
But whatever. I've made my point, given a solid example of what I think is a far more attractive approach that has worked for me and others, and that's all I wanted to add to the conversation. Feel free to reiterate that I'm a idiotic hippy who will usher in unending fascism.
Just today? Funny thing is, today the only two arguments I've gotten into are "Is letting fascists into power actually bad?" (it is) and "Is genocide of Ukrainians wrong enough to do literally anything about?" (it is).
Sorry if you find that a disagreement worthy of respectful dialogue, but personally, I find neither fascism nor genocide to be respectable.
What did I say about being able to read your post history?
Those are all examples from just the last 2 hours, across multiple threads. The tragic thing is, I probably agree with a lot of your points. You really do appear to want to deliver those points with as much dehumanization and dismissal as possible however.
Ironically, for how often this dude calls others foreign plants, he uses British language like whinging, which in the US is spelled whining.
You mistake me. When I said "Just today?" I meant it as a preface to "I've only been in two arguments today, and neither of them were with causes worthy of respect - namely, support for fascism, and support for genocide"
That's a meme, man, of what is effectively a horoscope for political nerds, and it makes fun of all the quadrants.
I'm sorry, how am I supposed to respond to a blatant bad faith effort to spread historical misinformation? "That's definitely true"?
With facts and sources to back up those facts. You can disagree with someone in a civil manner. If you actually care about my point about delivery, please watch that Bernie video.
Your meme does indeed make fun of all quadrants, but I used it because it's an example of the type of the insults. And let's be honest, there's evidence in those other posts that some of those opinions are not JUST satire for you. I mean, you called me out for being naively kind and employing "flower power", aka chances are you think I'm one of the useful idiots.
Aside from that, like I said - I can't stop you from insulting people. Your arguments seem to point to a belief in your right to do so. I don't think I would force you even if I could since I usually try to convince people instead. If I didn't change your mind, maybe I will change the minds of some others who may read this.
Historical misinformation spreads most readily simply by being repeated and undisputed.
Disagreeing with someone civilly acknowledges the validity of their point or position. Positions like "Genocide is okay to tolerate" or "Blatant historical misinformation spread in bad-faith and not ignorance" are not valid, and should not be acknowledged in a manner that implies they're valid.
I mean, no, but is "Every political position, even the one I'm part of, has flaws" really that bad in your eyes?
That's the right approach, honestly.
This is admittedly a bit nitpickey, but I specifically said you address misinformation with facts and sources to back up those facts. That's the opposite of repeating and/or letting it go undisputed.
No. You can say, emphatically, "you're wrong" without also calling someone idiotic, etc.
I've said right from the start that I agree with some points you make, and I stand by that. Being aware that everyone is wrong sometimes is undeniably a virtue.
Thank you :) I appreciate that, and respect that you're willing to give me that even if we have had our disagreements today.
I occasionally call out people for their stupidity, but more often I call people out for repeating fascist or pro-genocide talking points. Should I be softening that blow, in your eyes? "Yes, you're repeating fascist propaganda, but I won't dare call them something mean like 'literal fascist talking points', because that might hurt your feelings"?
Fascist talking points must be pointed out for what they are, not given the polite euphemisms of civility. Fascism is not acceptable, and it should not be treated as acceptable; that it is a fascist point being made should absolutely be highlighted in any response.
I mean, it's a meme, guy, of something I have repeatedly said is a horoscope for political nerds. It's not posted seriously, and even if it was, it's really not that offensive.
I'm perfectly capable of civil disagreement. I just don't extend that courtesy to people who make apologies for genocide or fascism.