this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
399 points (93.3% liked)
Political Memes
5418 readers
2786 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Sadly not the case for germany...
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2460/umfrage/anteile-nichtdeutscher-verdaechtiger-bei-straftaten-zeitreihe/
Over 41% of crimes committed in Germany in 2023 were done by foreigners, while the people living in Germany (~85 million) are overwhelmingly ethnic germans (~72 million, or 85%).
*note that these numbers are subject to the usual statistical inaccuracies and also count people put to trial for a crime, not necessarily only the ones convicted.
"Straftatverdächtig" means "accused of a crime", that doesn't mean they actually commited them. The same statistics also states that only about 30 percent of those non-Germans were immigrants. That means that about 18 percents of (again, only) accused crimes were by immigrants, which is still a worrying uptick from 15 percent of the year before. A likely factor for the uptick was the Covid pandemic in 2022.
Feel free to read the second paragraph as well, I specifically mentioned that this doesnt just count convictions. I also refer to foreigners, which is probably the most accurate way to translate "Ausländer“, not just immigrants.
But you did say "not the case for Germany" in response to a comment that was specifically about immigrants. So the above commenter's point was that it in fact is the case for Germany.
The cited data refers to foreigners, not immigrants. Although I would argue that the distinction in this case is largely nitpicking anyway, since as far as I understand foreigners in this context are prospecting immigrants, who are already in the country and await the processing of their application for citizenship, or non-citizens simply living here for any reason.
I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue, you even agree with me that the data shows a very concerning trend over the years. Just semantics?
Is it an uptick? Ausländer were 11.2% of the population in 2016 when the proportion of crimes was about the same (40%). 50% more Ausländer, the same amount of crime => the rate is clearly going down.
I chose 2016 because the rates were the same, but you can do the same analysis for 2017. The population of Ausländer has increased by more than their share of the crime rate.
Might be worth asking how much of that includes immigration specific crimes. If you've just got a bunch of migrants getting "papers please"d at over and over again, you could see a very large number of criminal accusations that stem from a vanishingly small degree of actual harm.
Should also be noted that German labor law strictly limits which professions and businesses a migrant worker can participate in which they only recently relaxed and only for a small percentage of skilled workers. Consequently, you have a large pool of black market labor that inevitably gets routed into prohibited professions (sex work, drug mule, unlicensed street vending, shady telemarketing and other scam businesses).
So, again, it would be helpful to know if these migrant communities are actually doing violent/financial crimes or whether they're just getting over-policed and under-employed as second class citizens.
This is a police statistic, so the crimes measured are criminal cases, not financial fraud or such. Those are not investigated by the police.
Is illegal residency a criminal case? Is operating a business without a license? I couldn't find that in the article.
Your post says 41% of crimes committed are foreigners. That means 59% are committed by citizens.
So isn’t OPs statement that foreigners commit less crimes than locals still true?
The statistic also states that 85% of Germany's population are ethnic Germans. If true, that would mean that the foreign population (15%) is responsible for 41% of crimes
As the other commenter pointed out, they make up a much smaller fraction of the population and are still involved in a disproportionate amount of the overall committed crimes.
While those numbers undoubtedly disregard a variety of circumstances and factors that might affect the statistic, such as the possibility of race based prejudice causing foreigners to be easier suspected and in consequence investigated, it shows a very worrying trend over the last decade that likely contributed to the disastrous recent European election results.