MeanwhileOnGrad
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
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Yeah. There's this culture of lemmy.ml, too, that's elevated arguing in bad faith to this sort of "this is the way" status. Like if you're calmly citing sources and asking questions, that is "sealioning" which is a bad thing to do, but hurling abuse at someone who you don't agree with is fine. Also, I've noticed a common thread of behavior which is telling other people what those people believe and then disagreeing with it. Like hey, you disagreed with some ludicrous thing that I said, so that means you're a "centrist" and you support establishment Democrats and Israel, and so now I'm gonna go HAM about telling you how wrong you are for supporting the Democrats and Israel even though you never said those things or anything even roughly similar to them. It's like a little one-man band of internet debate. The other person doesn't even really need to be involved in the process at all beyond showing up and saying a couple things enough to be branded as the enemy.
At one point I thought it was bots. Like they're programmed with this pattern of general hostility pushing a certain viewpoint, that doesn't even need to have anything to do with what the person they're talking to is saying, and that's why it's so bizarre in the flow of conversation. But now I'm not real sure about that. IDK. Maybe it's not worth time trying to figure out, but it is a mystery to me that I wish I could know the answer to.
Basically just look up EthanIsOnline on youtube or twitter and there's your average terminally online, drama queen, any slight association to anything I don't like mandates guilt by massive unfounded leaps, always correct no matter how much of a hypocrite or just factually wrong they are kind of leftist person.
I have known people like ml and hex tankies in real life. The ones I knew were extremely erratic and manipulative, explosive personalities.
The sort of weird conversation style that works on comment threads and streams on the net has kind of broken their brains, as when you see a person doing this IRL its basically a 30 minute rant of them either screaming at you, or having a complete suicidal depression breakdown after any particular thing sets off them off.
If you were an unbiased observer who was just observing most of the interactions these people have it'd be clear that they are emotionally abusive cry bullies.
My experience was so bad that I've given up doing mutual aid and helping those who were at the time less well off than me.
I can be the person actually doing the thing, spending all my time actually assisting the downtrodden, and none of that means anything because I laugh when my roommate says oh China's former president just got whisked away during a very public party meeting, surely he's been put into witness protection to save him from threats on his life!
A month later I am homeless because roommate was angry and decided to spread a bunch of rumors about me.
Awesome!
No no no I don't want to
My experience is, honestly, pretty limited, but that makes sense to me. Some of the super-left people I have known IRL have been illogical in this very particular "and of course I am right about everything, that goes without saying" way that largely tracks with what you're describing.
It's a fucking shame, because I am feeling right now that I should be getting involved with some kind of left organization for progress, because without that the US and the world are in mortal danger of some very bad things. IDK. Maybe the way to go is to get involved with unions and electoral politics and leave the harder core of communists to their own devices for the time being.
My pet theory/explanation is that, the more people see things go wrong in society (or, rather, believe them to), the more they tend to become contrarians. They look for views and beliefs that are opposite to what people in authority say. It seems to be built into us, like a tribe of stone age people will question their leaders' methods and decisions after a row of bad hunts and then desire to hunt in a new place, at a different time, using different techniques.
Modern information warfare appears to use that idea centrally. The far right has been indoctrinated to believe that the "establishment" they rebel against is left wing and that a hard turn towards right wing politics is needed. After Trump won in 2016 and they were officially in power, they splintered a bit until they found a new lore: "actually, we're still being ruled by the left, they're the deep state, the cabal, etc." to rekindle the contrarian / siege mentality and come together again.
I see all that in tankies, too. Society feels like it's going wrong, so they sponge up any reason they see to hate the "establishment," which is where the already running information warfare provides them ample facts to blame liberals and hate western powers, etc.
Also, on the hostility... yeah. These echo chambers seem to almost intentionally breed a nastiness that shuts down any useful discussion. Try to defuse anger and you're "whiteknighting," try to point out that something decent is good and you're "virtue signaling." When these communities erupt into other spaces, they quickly drive out anyone discussing in good faith. Survival of the nastiest.
Generation grew up on with us or against us, then purity poisoned themselves into insanity
A lot of minor social media sites got created by groups unwelcome to larger sites. Lemmy in general has a tankie pedigree. At least tankies aren't fascist, but they can still be insufferable.
They're extremely authoritarian. Like they prefer authoritarianism to leftist economics. What is the practical difference between their brand of authoritarianism and fascism? They want nominally leftist authoritarianism with selectively harsh law enforcement.
Yeah, they are extremely authoritarian against people they don't like. They just don't punch down.
I'm just comparing them to fascists.
Fascists and "red" fascists are so similar in practice that even though they're adjacent, own ideologies, it just usually doesn't matter a lot