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submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] homesweethomeMrL 20 points 6 months ago (5 children)

Yes but didn't we all know that at some point before choosing that career? How do you get roughly 22 years into it - a PhD - and not know that academia is essentially a political rodeo and your research is going to be affected heavily by it? Didn't anyone whisper it to you confidentially in the back of some elective?

It most definitely shouldn't be, it's clearly poisonous to the idea of science, but it wasn't like a secret either. Like, it's "not ok" that that's the case, it's not something we should wave away as "just human things" - it should be addressed, it should be fixed. But it wasn't unknown.

[–] ZMoney 33 points 6 months ago (1 children)

There is no alternative if you actually want to do science and don't have millions of dollars to buy labs and materials and instruments. Science gets done in spite of everything she is describing.

[–] homesweethomeMrL -4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Fair, but how does someone take on that career and not know that?

[–] ZMoney 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I think it's the degree of bullshit that increases gradually. To speak from experience, when you are a grad student you get a feeling like there's corruption but overall your project seems like it's important and making a real contribution (hopefully). You also don't have to worry about where the money is coming from. Sometimes the grant as a whole is total bullshit but there is enough discretionary spending included that great science comes out of it. But you don't realize this until you're writing grants, and by then you're maybe too deep in the game to pull out. Essentially, you end up becoming a manager once you get tenure. There is no epiphany; it's more like a slow creep.

[–] homesweethomeMrL -1 points 6 months ago

Okay. I dunno, for me it was expressly stated by many people.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Many people I know get into it because of their idealism and desire to change the academic system for the better. They invest into this career, year after year, because it's always one more step until they can finally use their influence to change the system from the inside.

[–] homesweethomeMrL -5 points 6 months ago

So they’ve agreed, as it were, to the politics, the metrics, etc that come with it. Hopefully they can in fact change it, or part of it anyway.

[–] TargaryenTKE 12 points 6 months ago (2 children)

It's definitely unknown to the vast majority of the tens of thousands of college freshmen who sign up to be STEM majors. Usually by the time they figure it out it's already far too late to change their majors without rearranging their entire lives

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

It's also the only viable route to doing science for most people. So even if you're aware of the problem, you just have to grit your teeth and play the game if you want to pursue your passion.

[–] homesweethomeMrL 0 points 6 months ago

Well, hopefully this will help change things then. It’s definitely not new.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago

it should be addressed

I think that's what she's trying to do.

[–] mineralfellow 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Depends on the program you are in. The view from being a doctoral student to being a postdoc to being research/lecturing staff is very different. Not all advisors expose their students to the realities of higher levels of academia. And when a woman or minority is being mentored by a white man, they may not be aware of biases that can affect the student's later career.

[–] homesweethomeMrL 0 points 6 months ago

I mean, maybe I had a different view, but that was known to myself and the people I was in school with as early as highschool. As a part of the landscape, like, yes you can pursue a career in academia but. Publish or perish, etc.