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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/16133154
Link to original Tweet: https://x.com/DavidZipper/status/1795048724021862898
In California the speed limit is now very high for class III e-scooters, 28 mph (45 km/h). And I think a lot of e-bike riders, who can’t even get close to that speed, assume that e-scooter riders are “breaking the law” when they get passed up by them. But it’s allowed, at least here.
45km/h e-scooter ?? Those things with tiny wheels where you stand on a small platform ?
They must have a death wish for that. 45km/h on a bicycle (electric or road bike) is already a bit too fast in most situations.
Between 35 and 38km/h is my perfect spot for riding in cities and is the usual speed on flat of a good road bike (not rode by a professional, those guys are crazy fast).
I think there is a Northern Europe country (ofc it’s Northern Europe…) where the limit isn’t 25 and 45 but 38.
If we had one unique class at 38km/h the world would be a better place.
They go much faster than that if you're willing to drop 5 or 6k. There's a reason youtubers wear full riding gear on some of them.
The faster ones have bigger wheels
It's stupid but I understand. At these speeds you shouldn't be allowed to ride there. When you don't have to make an effort to get to this speed it is easy to lose track how fast you actually going. When you ride on bike path it is common to slow under 20km/h when it is full.
Do you have a reference for "class 3 e-scooters"? My understanding of the California Vehicle Code is that the class system only applies to bicycles with pedals, per CVC 312.5.
Whereas e-scooters -- the things that Bird and Lime rent through their app -- exist under CVC 407.5, which previously covered the older, gasoline-powered 50 cc types of scooters. But apparently the law has now completed written out the gas-powered ones, only mentioning electric-powered "motorized scooters".
Strictly speaking, there isn't a requirement in the law for e-scooters to have a speed governor, whereas ebikes must have one, either 20 mph (32 kph) or 28 mph (45 kph). Instead, riders of e-scooters are subject to a speed limit of 15 mph (25 kph), a stalwart from the days of the gas-powered scooters.
The key distinction here is that an ebike over-speeding beyond its class rating is an equipment violation, akin to an automobile without operational brake lights. But an e-scooter over-speeding beyond 15 mph is a moving violation, potentially incurring points on the rider's driving license -- if they have one -- and can impact auto insurance rates, somewhat bizarrely.
I'm not saying CA law is fair to e-scooters -- it's not -- but I can't see a legal scenario where an e-scooter can overtake an ebike rider if both are operating at full legal limits.
I have a Segway C80. It has tiny, but functional pedals. It looks very much like a scooter though, like a mini Vespa. I believe mine is a class II factory, but the governor can be lifted to 28 mph to make it a class III. I assumed that’s what was meant by “e-scooter,” but I guess you’re talking about another kind of vehicle that entirely lacks the pedals. I had thought a “real” e-scooter required a motorcycle license since those can reach freeway speeds and are above 750W.
Ah, now I understand what you mean. Yes, the stock C80 would indeed legally be a Class 2 ebike in California, by virtue of its operable pedals, whether or not it's actually practical to use the pedals. That the marketing material suggests the C80 is used primarily with its throttle is no different than other Class 2 ebikes which are often ridden throttle-only, as many city dwellers have come to fear.
As for the unlock to Class 3, I wonder how they do that: California's Class 3 does not allow throttle-only operation, requiring some degree of pedal input.
The spectrum of two-wheelers in California include: bicycles, ebikes (class 1, 2, 3), scooters, mopeds (CVC 406), motor-driven cycles, and motorcycles (aka motorbikes; CVC 400)
The "moped" category, one which has almost been forgotten to the 1970s, has seen a resurgence: the now-updated law recognizes 30 mph, electric, 4 HP (3 kW) max two- or three-wheelers. These mopeds are street legal, bike lane legal, don't have annual registration, no insurance requirement, but do need an M1/M2 license. These CVC 406 mopeds are not freeway legal, but darn if they're not incredibly useful for in-town riding.
I could get myself an electric dirt bike and plates for it, 100% legally.