this post was submitted on 16 May 2024

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Judge strikes down anti-trans sports ban after roller derby team fights for its members (www.lgbtqnation.com)

submitted 6 months ago by jeffw to c/news

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[+] chakan2 -7 points 6 months ago (2 children)

This is why this debate is stupid. The people having it are arguing against people who have actually played sport their whole lives. I watched an 8th grade travel team decimate what I thought was our very good team. They had a kid show up that was over 6 (in 8th fucking grade) that could play above the rim. He was unstoppable. That kid would easily be a starter in the WNBA and would smash Griner back to Russia. Get 15 or so of those kids and put them up against any WNBA team you want to put together and they'd win handily.

That's the point. Trans-women athletes are essentially testosterone doping. They've got more muscle mass, and a heavier bone structure. That doesn't go away after the transition. The British Journal of Sports Medicine confirmed that.

In non-competitive leagues, I could care less...everyone can play with everyone...it's fine. When you're talking about the Olympics and college sports where the girls have trained their whole lives for a given event only to be beat out by someone who got to take the equivalent of human growth hormones and testosterone is unfair.

[–] FlyingSquid 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You are welcome to believe that an 8th grader can beat Britney Griner in a basketball game, but just saying it doesn't make it true and I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

And you may not have noticed, but I haven't talked about trans people in this discussion at all, since that wasn't the point I was addressing.

I directly said what I was addressing.

[–] chakan2 -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-womens-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html

[–] FlyingSquid 2 points 6 months ago

And that proves what about Britney Griner? That's not even the same sport! Your claim was an eighth grader who has never played her could beat her in basketball, which proves that all 550 men on the NBA are better than her.

Unless you're claiming all sports require the same amount of athletic skill and ability, this is a terrible argument. And if that is your claim, it's weird that athletes don't hop from sport to sport constantly.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Trans-women athletes are essentially testosterone doping.

Are you seriously suggesting that trans women, the people taking anti-androgens to suppress testosterone production because testosterone is literally poison to them, are doping themselves with testosterone to gain an advantage in sports? Is that really a thing you believe?

They’ve got more muscle mass, and a heavier bone structure. That doesn’t go away after the transition. The British Journal of Sports Medicine confirmed that.

Why don't we take a look at what the British Journal of Sports Medicine actually said:

One of the most noticeable disparities between gender groups was in height and mass (table 1), with (cisgender men) and transgender women being taller and heavier than their cisgender and transgender counterparts (table 1). Body composition measures (fat mass % and fat-free mass %, table 2) between transgender women and cisgender women found no difference. However, transgender women are, on average as a cohort taller and heavier.

So you're partially correct in that trans women do, on average, have more mass than cis women, but only because trans women tend to be taller. Does that translate to an advantage in athletics?

Compared with cisgender women, transgender women have decreased lung function, increasing their work in breathing. Regardless of fat-free mass distribution, transgender women performed worse on the countermovement jump than cisgender women and (cisgender men). Although transgender women have comparable absolute V̇O2max values to cisgender women, when normalised for body weight, transgender women’s cardiovascular fitness is lower than CM and women.

Apparently not. Trans women, despite being larger on average, performed worse than cisgender women. This is from your own source. Did you not actually read the study, or are you intentionally cherry-picking to misrepresent its conclusions?

When you’re talking about the Olympics and college sports where the girls have trained their whole lives for a given event only to be beat out by someone who got to take the equivalent of human growth hormones and testosterone is unfair.

Imagine a woman training her whole life for an event and being beaten by Brittney Griner. That actually happened, and I bet it was emotionally devastating.

Imagine training your whole life, and then finding out that you were born with a permanent medical condition that will require taking drugs that reduce your athletic performance to below the average of your peers, and this condition will also make lots of sexist chuds want to ban you from sports entirely. I bet that would really be unfair, wouldn't you agree?