this post was submitted on 15 May 2024
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Where I live there's no community though, there are no volunteers or "odd jobs", people keep to themselves and don't speak in public, there are no local groups and if there are, I've never seen them, the only local people I even found on the internet was randos on nextdoor complaining about street buskers 100s of miles away.
I always hear this shit about organising and community but it's like from another dimension or something from a movie and always so vague, I've yet to see any organising or community IRL or any instructions as to what this actually means step by step.
Do you have a local Food Not Bombs, DSA, PSL, or other org?
No, I'm from the UK. There was an anarchist fed in London that ran a solidarity cafe at a gay club during the day, though eventually shifting to mostly zoom calls, but it closed because no one went there, probably because they just had Facebook and a mailing list and finding them organically online was almost impossible.
Odd tbh, the only flyers and stickers I saw was Snapchats for buying weed and the occasional TERF one.
The only record store I saw was operated by two elderly men who seemed extremely irritated at the fact they had customers and especially me (store's in Notting Hill), and low-balled harder than pawn stars (I needed money to get to work once so had the misfortune), they also seemed to be part of a chain.
At speaker's corner I def saw political orgs too, but it was either anti-vaxxers/anti-maskere or TERFs usually.
I did find one cafe in Islington with pride flags, but there wasn't anything besides that, certainly no "bulletin boards" and the coffee was the most disgusting swill I had, don't think I've actually seen an independent book shop that wasn't Waterstones or WHSmith in my 8 years living there.
Only thing I saw close to a community centre was a mormon church, which was never open, but often had entertaining crazy spiceheads outside of it that would chase people down the street on occasion.
I guess it depends on the area. I was also advised to look on Facebook, which is a good idea as I've never been on there before. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
P.S. Btw just to avoid confusion in the future: "City of London" especially when capitalized in this way as a specific name is actually a bit different from "London": it's a district within London https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London semi-autonomously operated by the CoL Corporation, judging by you mentioning Speaker's corner I think you meant just London https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London which is the stuff around the City of London.
Yeah we def had. And Aaah fair enough about the City. I've not lived in the City, only in North London, for a long time quite close to Hyde Park so I'm pretty familiar with speaker's corner.
I do remember also seeing pro-Russian war protestors by Bayswater next to the Ukrainian protesters outside the Ruski embassy once. It was pretty funny because between both groups there were like 10 people total and most people just went around them silently ignoring them like typical Londoners about everything, occasionally granting them with a tut
Sounds like your first step is organising a community.
Yeah, but how? What is the actual step by step guide here? What does this even mean really, "organizing a community"?
It’s gonna be different for each area.
But you’re going to need to do:
Outreach: Make connections with local people, get them aware of you and what you’re wanting to do, get their input on what they would like to see.
Planning: Come up with things you want to see your community doing, maybe start with a small street party each year.
For example you might live in an apartment, so you knock on some doors and meet with your neighbours and they say they’d love a garden. Now you’ve gotta plan how to get it started, maybe a local council or vacant property could be converted. Once you’ve got an activity or place, you can get people to start using it and spending time together. Maybe your first harvest comes in and you all have a large picnic which you can advertise around to get more awareness and engagement, etc.
Okay that's helpful! Thanks.
I think all properties are owned by overseas landlords and investment megacorps though, finding housing is impossible, and the local council is powerless, they can barely even collect the trash piled up outside so space might be an issue. There are no public spaces here and those few that exist need explicit permission for anything, and I don't think that will be allowed if there's even a hint of politics, not that rich homeowners with a garden would be onboard for any such thing.
Also I think knocking on doors will result in a "what do you want?" followed by a "fuck off I'm not buying", rather than anything useful.
It's literally in the posted image. If you see someone unhoused offer them food or a blanket. Help your neighbors with tasks around the house or their yard. Ask around at work about your coworkers lives and if they need help offer it. Pick up trash you see around your neighborhood.
I have an honest question, why are you posting in this community?
Also, do you know the definition of willful ignorance?
Oh I've definitely done things like that for the homeless. But it doesn't really do anything about organizing or creating any sense of community, which is what I was asking about.
Those people are gone the next day, and a fresh batch replaces them. I don't think I've ever seen the same person twice.
If I ever even saw any neighbours or had any evidence to them existing, how does mowing their lawn bring about any political aims exactly? They're just exploiting my labour then, not that I'd know how to mow a lawn or do most other house tasks as I'm not a homeowner.
Besides, I think showing up to some house unnanounced to strangers and offering to help with "tasks" will be met with a call to the police because they'd suspect I'm either trying to rob them or sell them something.
As for coworkers, most people are outsourced contractors who either don't speak English, or do but live overseas. I think I've seen my direct coworkers twice IRL, they are all each from different countries.
I do know what wilful ignorance means, and this ain't it, because you've failed to explain anything that applies, so I am not being willfully ignorant, but I am completely ignorant to what you're talking about as you've failed to explain it, and what's worse you've decided to come back with insults etc.
I think as most people I am here to learn and interact with like-minded people, but as you can see by my upvote count, it is highly likely that I'm not alone in this situation, so if you want people to actually do any of this, you're gonna have to chill with the condescending tone and gatekeeping of being a public good and actually explain what you mean by any of this "community" or "organizing" shit or how any of this is meant to work in practice.
Where are you based? I found myself facing the same problem. In my small rural community a 2nd hand and artisan market proved to be effective to get people out of their houses and meet up. No need to throw political theory at them immediately, it's just great they appeared. Though I do admit there's already a bit of a community to work with and entertainment is sparse around here so it's easy to get people's attention. Where are you based? Not sure what would work best there.
The organizing steps that worked so far for me and bf are described in the Community community of this instance (and the many social anxieties suffered by a person who wants to encourage community but isn't very social to begin with).
I'm in South East England. There's a weekend market here, but it's all organized by the council and such, it's not something mere mortals can really influence. Other than that while entertainment here is sparse, I think most people just stay inside the home. I wouldn't call this a rural community, it's a small town, I'm not sure if it would be harder or easier if the population was in the hundreds instead of hundreds of thousands.
Thanks for linking that! I'll check it out. I'm pretty outgoing and social, at times it seems the only person in the world who seems to be okay just chatting to people, but I also want to get it right, so it'll be good to read up as much as possible before any action.
Hello neighbour.
Formerly Chuck's?
The very same.
I would just like to both validate and challenge your view of the UK. I lived in Torquay (Devon, so the southwest) for a good long while, albeit during the height of lockdowns, and community felt nonexistant. There were some punk-type-folks attempting to get stuff started right when I moved away, but only just then iirc.
I moved to Inverness (Scottish Highlands) and it’s night and day. There’s a queer community doing hella shit, there’s a tool library popping off, lots of good local initiatives are being organised and taking off.
My kneejerk response is to say that Inverness beats the hell outta Torquay. But the thing is, about 4-5 years ago NONE OF THE STUFF I mentioned was going on. The queer meetup was organised by one dude who moved up from London and was gobsmacked that there wasn’t an active community. Now it’s consistently a huge, weekly event. There are even offshoots of quieter meetups that had to be created because the main one is So Successful. But all the local queers will tell you that before this started, they thought they were all alone up here.
And the tool library is only about a year old, but keeping on well.
So on one hand, yeah, I think the UK has a very… independent culture. But once someone identifies a need in a community and fills that need, people tend to show up and appreciate it.
Also, i reckon this is a good time to be an organiser. People are tired of being alone during a pandemic, people are tired of seeing what other communities do via the internet and want their communities to do the same.
Tl;dr be the change! There’s an appetite for it.
That's so cool! Very jelly. Would you mind sharing how you found all these communities when you moved around?
I'm very surprised a guy from London was gobsmacked by this, London if anything was the most alienating of them all and I never found any communities there either.
It's probably an effect of the design of your city/town/surroundings, if I had to guess. May I ask what type of place you live in? Like, is it a suburb or something similar?
Also, you might like to read this person's story that I've been following along on here. ~~I'll put a link for you in a minute~~
https://alexandrite.app/slrpnk.net/post/9534657
On a side note: please use our own instance of Alexandrite to not leak your password to a 3rd party: https://alexandrite.slrpnk.net
I've lived in London, UK in dense urban housing, the only time I've ever spoken to anyone in the area was when a neighbour below had a water leak caused by the floor caving in underneath what could only very charitably be called my bathroom.
He could barely speak English and seemed to be living in the same squalor studio but with a family of 4, he was a man and like 20 years older than me.
Then I moved out to a flat in a smaller town, very suburban, closest shop was like a 10 min walk. I don't think I've seen a single person ever speaking in public apart from groups of university students, whom I wouldn't want to approach for fear of being accused of being a groomer (I'm trans and besides that frankly I would've kept my hand firmly on my wallet if some adult approached me out of nowhere when I was in uni), and 50 year olds out on the town either with kids or just getting lunch for work.
I tried to organise with my neighbours once to get the landlord to install some sound insulation, but I asked them to at least stop blasting the music from speakers at night at their daily house parties of 20-30 people (they already lived in a house share of 6, packed like rats) in the meantime, which apparently crossed a line and caused a conflict that endured for years and involved attempts on their behalf to scam me into paying their energy bill by going to the landlord.
All other attempts at talking were met with gaslighting and aggression, I had to resort to discussing it with the landlord because I was worried they were gonna cave in the ceiling with their attempts at smashing things at their floor so I'd give up and leave, fortunately a guitar amplifier aimed squarely at the ceiling blasting the X-Files theme throughout the night got them to stop and we are now in a temporary cease-fire.
That's probably the closest to earnest human communication I've experienced with a stranger. Fwiw I don't think I've ever witnessed anyone else talking to anyone else like that either, in fact I'd say by sheer coincidence I'm the only person I know who even has seen their neighbours.
Closest my best friend got was an auto-generated emaul from their landlord's agency filing a noise complaint on behalf of neighbours when we both could've sworn their place was empty of furniture, nevermind people.
He doesn't "do politics", and when I prompted him, he didn't seem to even understand what the word meant or how policy would even relate to anyone's day to day life. All he follows is K-Pop and gadgets. I only know him from school, the rest of my friends are my exes.
Some anarchist I am, huh?
When it comes to friend circles, either people are exactly as radicalised as I am in theory, but don't bother with any praxis because they don't know what to do either or are so incredibly depressed by even broaching the subject they avoid it altogether, apart from maybe donating to the green party or more realistically some weird debate streamer, or some of the more far removed acquaintances don't understand politics and probably couldn't even name who the current prime minister is, all they care about is football and maybe if they're nerdy - FIFA on da Xbox with the lads. Nevermind politics, even basic history usually escapes them. Maybe they've gone on twitter once to look up their favourite brand and now say Trump seems like a charismatic funny guy.
A friend of mine used to say that about Putin - that was the extent of her political opinions that and being "kind", despite the fact I repeatedly told her it's not very nice when I'm a literal refugee from Russia thanks to the guy.
A mutual friend of ours did get radicalised eventually - she became a nazi, not like rightoid or alt-right but dead on "dear leader" hitler-loving nazi and excitedly once showed me a portrait of some SS guy she drew which she expected me to like despite knowing I was trans, (later, she offered me to try meth with her, which was funny but not actually that odd since we did drugs together all the time) we used to at least have stuff to talk about though because she seemed to at least think actively about the world, even if her conclusions to almost all problems were invariably some form of eugenics and "more white people", even public transport would be solved with this, according to her.
When it comes to the workplace, I think we used to have some vaguely political discussions, but as my immigrant status hinges on maintaining a job, and it's in tech - for what has now been acquired and is now managed by an American multinational and with that brought the attitude of that culture, I tread very very lightly.
Needless to say, the alienation is brutal. Most people generally seem like a different species, I think me and my cat have far more in common than I do with any people, whether it understands Kropotkin or not. People and events seem procedurally generated, they appear just as randomly and quickly as they disappear, no one seems to have more than 2 lines of dialogue.
Even outside of politics, most everything I am deeply invested in is something seemingly no ordinary person has ever even heard of, at least on the internet people seem real, hivemind af sure, but not as atomized. Maybe in the US people are just way more engaged with this stuff.
Thanks for linking that post, it's a neat story, but it seems to start in medias res of having already organized an entire event, not exactly helpful instructions wise, but inspiring for sure.
First of all, a hug from far, and may the alienation go away soon.
Second, I've found there's no point in discussing politics with people. Not with friends, not with strangers. There's no point in trying to find people 'aligned enough' with my political ideas. Since I've accepted that I feel that my attempts at spreading anarchism lead so much further! As long as I never mention the word (or any other political jargon), and always, always approach my fellow humans as humans and try to inquire about what moves them, not tell them what I think they should do.
What do you think is missing in your neighbourhood? If you think it's human contact, try to start there and invent ways to encourage friendly contact. Maybe create a point for food sharing or book sharing. If people are too shy to speak to each other in person at this point, give them other options, so they can lose their shyness gradually.
Schmorp! I was just talking about you!! :)
Alienation from other people and thinking they are not worth the bother is a relatively sure sign of depression.
I am not saying its only a you problem, and people around you are probably depressed as well, but I think it's worth viewing your interactions with other people through that self-reflective lense some time.
I connect with some people just fine, and I'm not low on mood or anything, I'm a pretty thick-skinned in this regard so I don't think it's me really. All of this, as shitty as it is, I don't let it get to me, I huff the green utopia flavoured hopium
I think it's just this country sadly, as the other poster mentioned, every single person I've connected with is either from another country originally (or still) or has more of a global cultural outlook thanks to the internet.
As an expat here in England, you guys really hate each other and it's super odd. I've experienced more psycho neighbors here than I have literally anywhere else, I've never had problems before moving here. I never have problems here when the neighbors are other immigrants like me, though. There's a big cultural issue here with this and it's worse the closer you get to London. It's definitely not everyone, though and the good ones are the kindest most smart, meek individuals I've ever met... I highly recommend the book Watching the English. Classism and bullying is deeply ingrained here but there is a lot of hope. It is changing. Scotland isn't like this.
What sort of things do you like to do? Do you want to be outside, work with the elderly, teach, or ?
True honestly, I'm not a Briton originally, and the people I've made the best connections with aren't either, or are heavily global in culture thanks to the internet.
As for what I want to do I'd love to organize some kind of thing for queer people, immigrants and maybe other outsiders, in my perfect fantasy of a community I picture outdoor activities, maybe hikes or bicycle rides or longboarding or some such, and facilitate culture sharing exchange and just a place to get to know people, who may be one day able to help each other with mutual aid and whatnot as well as organize ways we could all pitch in and perhaps help the unhoused etc, all in an unofficial manner, under no banner as simply good samaritans if that makes sense. Doing that, with other like-minded people - I think would be as close to paradise as one could reasonably expect in our time.
If you would like recommendations, I can point you to places to look for outdoor stuff. :) Every though about doing community archaeology or maybe working with local rewilding projects?
I've got to say, a lot of your responses seem like you are pre-convinced that there isn't any solution to your problem. I think that's why you've been getting so much snark/pushback. (Are you looking for genuine help, or just needing to vent? Either way, it's ok. Separating the two might be beneficial to you though, that's all I'm saying here)
Did you read Schmorp's full story, or just the one link I sent? I know it's not step by step instructions, but if you're serious about organizing something I feel like there are a lot of good tips you could pick up on from the way that they did/are doing things.
Do you have any libraries you could frequent? Many of the unknowns you have could be addressed at a library and I think they would have much more relevant answers pertaining to your locality.
Also, here's a link to something that I just saw here, that seemed like it could be potentially relevant/useful: https://mobilizon.fr/
Put up a flyer, write whatever it is you're willing to volunteer for. Put a Google voice number on the flyer. ???? Profit
I don't think anyone reads flyers, and what would I write? "Willing to volunteer for something good" lol I don't think that's very serious.
Also, what is a "Google voice number"? Ive literally never heard of it, so I don't think that's going to be effective, is it an American thing?
Google Voice is google's free telephone service. I'm not 100% certain it exists in the UK, but a quick search makes it look like it does. It's safer than putting your real phone number because it's more transient. You could probably also use email, signal, discord, or whatever, but phone numbers are the most ubiquitous.
As to what to write, since you don't know of anything happening, you might have to start the group. Is there something you want to volunteer to do? Litter cleanup, volunteering somewhere, helping people register to vote (ok that's probably a dystopian task specific to the US), or whatever?
DIY friend. Nobody is going to do it for you.
Yeah I DIY all the time, and I didn't ask anyone to do anything for me, but usually when you tell someone it's good to do something, it is good to specify what it is exactly you want them to do, so they can do it by following instructions at least using them as a jumping off point.
The issue I have is everyone parrots this organising and community stuff but no one ever specifies:
What the practical purpose of this is and how or if it benefits anyone? Generally people will team up with strangers for some mutually beneficial specific goal, not a vague reference to political theory they've never heard of, what is this goal here?
What constitutes a community in this sense (a definition would also be a good start, people throw this word around a lot, i.e. the "gay community", the "trans community" but it is clear there's no such thing, this is only used to avoid saying "trans people" by the press)
How to start and/or join a community. What's is/are the website(s) where such communities are advertised? Especially in non-American countries? Or if it requires interaction IRL, what is the socially acceptable way to do so, because it is not really acceptable (or gets people onboard) to go talk at random strangers on the street and is a good way to get the police called on you.
Unless all those things and much more is elaborated on at length, then the call to action doesn't really specify what the action is. You can absolutely go donate food to the homeless but it has zero to do with any community, just go buy sandwiches at the store and hand them out and feel good afterward, so that's what I've done before, but this community/organizing stuff seems to go over my head.
Forgive me if I'm being dense, but I'm starting to think that either the phrase "organize a community" has some sort of inherent meaning I am simply unable to comprehend (perhaps it makes more sense in closed suburban housing in America where people talk to and know their neighbours, unless that's just in movies), or it has no meaning at all.
ape together strong
hmmm i don't think everyone would agree that's a true statement.
Folks seem to like meetup, facebook, plura, eventbrite. One group of I know has an email list and website. You can often advertise in bars or smaller locations.
I don't know a lot about organizing groups.
I know folks who do stuff for queer community. They organize picnics, happy hours, concerts, discussion groups, and more. So far as I know, they started with someone going "I wanna start this group here." Advertise on meetup/facebook/whatever, and be ready for minimal turnout for a while. But over time you accumulate more people, and more options open up. With enough people you can accomplish more- lobbying, volunteering, making people feel less alone and terrible.
Ape together strong is funny, but not an answer.
Again, what "queer community"?
I know queer people, who maybe know some other queer people they're friends with not because they're queer, but there isn't any community, and they're spread across the country, few and far between.
They have no interest in any community. I've tried to organise a thing for us all to meet up, but no one is interested. Everyone needs money, they have phones for making themselves feel better. Most either don't understand politics at all, or much of anything in general.
Cool, i'll give this a go, see if I can get some kind of trans support group going. Cheers.
I fixed my previous post's markdown. It is finicky about whitespace, but hopefully my whole message rendered for you.
What is the practical purpose? Safety, solidarity, emotional validation, political might, fun. Off the top of my head. Sorry for the flippant answer before, heh.
Ok I'm not myself queer, just most of my friends are, so I can't authoritatively speak on this topic. I'm going to text some friends and see if they'll humor me by telling me their takes on if queer community exists.
My impression based on the number of explicitly queer events one friend goes to, and the spiraling social network around that, there is definitely community. They go to a lot of trans punk shows, I think. Plus picnics, beach trips, marches, parties, other stuff. I think they want to organize a knitting circle or something too, maybe?
My other friend who answered between me starting this message and now said, when I showed her the part I quoted: "That’s not consistent with my experience".
Thinking about it, I know someone else who runs a queer book club.
Thank you for such a detailed answer! It's very helpful!
Perhaps it is simply not a thing in this country/area or I don't have the right connections for it as I don't think I've ever heard of a "queer event".
It would be great if I can find such a queer community, as I don't know any other queer person who is aware of such events or communities if they exist, and if not, perhaps I can get to organising them. I've def never heard of a queer punk band, nevermind show, nevermind trans being a thing in the UK sadly, with the current political climate I doubt that's a thing. Seeing other queers IRL and perhaps talking politically with them is exactly what I need.
I'm glad I was helpful to you.
Don't dox yourself, so feel free to not reply or dm me, but what part of the UK are you in? I don't actively know anyone who lives there, but I spent a weekend with someone from Bristol and I'd bet money she was involved in cool queer stuff in her area.
The band Martha ( https://marthadiy.bandcamp.com/album/blisters-in-the-pit-of-my-heart ) are queer and from Durham.
I bet you could use Bandcamp to find music in your area and from that find people. Most bands tag themselves with their city origin, and maybe tag themselves with queer.
One queer friend said this, too:
""" Also you have to account for people being in the closet. Remaining closeted is much less common than it once was, but when I chaired the LGBT caucus at my old job I had closeted members so I had to keep the email list secret and stuff """
Thank you (and your friend)! That's a good point!
Ah ok, you're willfully ignorant.
I'm sorry but it's pretty clear that by the upvote count I am not alone in this. The left is ineffective, this is why.
Come off the high horse and enlighten us bud, how does one go from no strangers have ever spoken to one another in public to some mysterious Hollywood fantasy of "community"?
Ah good, the intellectual right has come to save us from ourselves. Thank you savior. I'm so happy you and your alts on an anonymous forum can show me the way to properly understand a meme.
Old post but I'm just lmaoing @ calling fellow anarchists "intellectual right" and accusing them of having "alts" just because most people agree.