152
this post was submitted on 11 May 2024
152 points (95.2% liked)
micromobility - Ebikes, scooters, longboards: Whatever floats your goat, this is micromobility
2350 readers
37 users here now
Ebikes, bicycles, scooters, skateboards, longboards, eboards, motorcycles, skates, unicycles: Whatever floats your goat, this is all things micromobility!
"Transportation using lightweight vehicles such as bicycles or scooters, especially electric ones that may be borrowed as part of a self-service rental program in which people rent vehicles for short-term use within a town or city.
micromobility is seen as a potential solution to moving people more efficiently around cities"
Feel free to also check out
It's a little sad that we need to actually say this, but:
Don't be an asshole or you will be permanently banned.
Respectful debate is totally OK, criticizing a product is fine, but being verbally abusive will not be tolerated.
Focus on discussing the idea, not attacking the person.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I think the question becomes, should you need to be licensed to operate and should you have to register/insure what essentially become ultralight motorcycles?
If you could get a $1-2k "motorcycle" that was an electric bike, having about a 45 mph top speed, a 20 mile range, and a detachable battery that you could take inside with you to charge, it would be such an efficient, practical method of transportation.
I really like the US take on this one actually. I'm pro ebike and absolutely love motorcycles, but 45 mph is too fast to not require a licence.
Here we have 3 classes numbered as such. Class 1 is 15 mph pedal assisted, class two is 20 mph pedal assisted, and class 3 is 28 mph and allows a dedicated throttle. Class 3 often has limitations for certain bike trails, but most class 3 comes have variable modes to limit them to class 1 and 2 speeds. Generally as long as you're following trail speed limits you really don't have to worry.
This part varies by state, but in general anything over 28 mph is considered a moped and requires a proper license. As an avid motorcycle rider I feel even 28 might be too fast for non-license, but I also understand keeping up with cars, especially in cities, is way safer so I get why the limit is a bit higher than you'd expect.
This is incorrect. Class 1 is pedal-assisted only, up to 20mph. Class 2 ebikes have a throttle that can power the bikes up to 20 mph without pedaling.
Yeah it varies entirely by state, the last time I checked in North Carolina there's a legal definition for "moped" which has a maximum speed fo 30mph, an engine of no more than 50ccs displacement, no external shifter controls, etc. And these are legal for road use without registration or a motorcycle license. I don't know how or if they've adopted laws about electric assist bicycles, but I imagine if it can go more than 30mph under its own power it would require a license plate and a motorcycle endorsement to operate.
I rarely go over 20 mph on mine (class 3). I try and minimize the pedal assist but it allows me to push myself because I know if I go to far (I'm old and out of shape), I can use the throttle to get home. The only time I was close to that was on a 25 mile ride with my son last summer when it it was in the upper 90's and humid. It was a circle route and the return was into a stiff breeze. The last mile or so was a slog and I used the throttle a lot just to get back.
At that speed, you want something beefier than a bike frame and parts. A US class 3 ebike is limited to 27mph on a 750W motor. That's stressing the limit of bike parts, even with ebike tires and chains.
A typical human can put down around 250W into a bike, and the best athletes around 400W. 750W plus what you put into it is outside the original intent of bike parts.
If you want to go 45mph, everything needs to go up a notch in design. That increases both weight and cost. A $1-2k range is only possible with the cheapest crap scooter parts. Get closer to $4k and things look better.
People should have some kind of licensing for this. Always should have for the ICE versions, and probably for class 3 ebikes, too. Maybe just the motorcycle license, maybe something specific, but it shouldn't be wide open.
I agree with most of what you've said.
However, I have a bottom of the barrel, 250w hub motor ebike. With pedal assist, it gets me cruising at 20mph no problem. I got it from Walmart for $400. I am pretty ignorant when it comes to production and manufacturing but it stands to reason that at 5x the price, they could make something that would safely go a little over twice the speed.
The problem with ebikes is that they manufacture all these huge, fat-tire, inefficient pieces of garbage and then price them at $3k like some luxury item.
I'm hoping cheap, fast ebikes are coming soon.
Wait, the bike I was hoping for already almost exists. Its called the goat v2. Its just a little over $2k with some promo codes and realistically, it's a couple mph shy of 45.
I think we're going to see bikes like this everywhere within 5 years, which is great!
I agree on the licensing part, but you don't need to get that much beefier for 45mph that you spend USD$4k. $1-2k is good ebike territory, I'd put these are $2-3k for something reasonably priced. This is coming from someone that has a 110cc road-going motorbike. Yes, motorbike, not scooter. The frame is about twice as thick as a mountain bikes. The things that really needs the most beefing up are the fork suspension and headstem.
Honestly the whole bloody problem with electric motorbikes and scooters (of the sitting variety) is that they're way overpriced for terrible range (<100km). Something in the $2-3k with that sort range that can go ~75kph would be the sweet spot for consumers I think. Especially if you're paying the costs to get your motorcycle endorsement on top. Which is pretty pricey where I am in Australia.
Bike gears are just not meant for this kind of torque. Cassettes get worn way faster at 750W + rider output. The derailleur transmission is lightweight and cheap, but it has limits and needs to be abandoned if you go much higher.
Who was talking about using bike gears? But also, you should abandon derailleurs at any speed unless you're racing the tour de france. The only advantage they have over internal hub gears is weight. And hub gears can be easily made strong enough to handle that sort of torque.
But you wouldn't necessarily need gears At All for something throttle driven. Electric motors have more than enough range of RPM on a single speed gearing system to get to 45mph. E-bikes only have gears for the human component, not the motor.
I absolutely agree with this.
At this point making a helmet and insurance mandatory and minimal age is only logical. How many fatbikes will we see if any of the above becomes reality?
Here in the Netherlands fatbikes really started to become a thing after they made helmets mandatory for moped drivers