gmtom

While I would say the Elgin marbles are a case that err on the side of they should be returned, again reality is not as simple and black and white as people like you want it to be.

When Elgin took the marbles the entire area was, by all accounts, in shambles and people were burning pieces of these statues to aquire lime to build with. And that was one of the reasons Elgin decided to remove the marbles, so they are preserved today because they were removed.

Then there's also the argument that they do in fact legally belong to the UK, Elgin got permission from both the ottoman empire and local authorities in Athens to remove the sculptures. Then the actions were also ratified when Elgin was twice given permissions by the ottomans to ship the statues out of Athens. No historian worth there salt will tell you they are stolen. That is a position held by Greeks, people pressured by them and people that have seen a tumble post or reddit article about the marbles and gone full dunning-kruger, thinking they know the intricacies of the whole situation.

If it doesn’t belong to them, they should relinquish it. Simple as that

Ignoring the rest of your comme to focus on this part because I love it when people declare complex issues "simple" and give 1 dimensional solutions to it.

How do you determine if it doesn't belong to them?

For example I think most people would say if they bought the artifacts legitimately, then they belong to them right?

What about cases when they legitimately buy artifacts from people who themselves acquired them I legitimately? Or how do you even determine legitimacey? Is someone finding a historical object mean it belongs to them and they can do what they like with it? What if it's on public land? What if it's private land and they are working on it and find it? What about when ownership of the land is disputed?

What about cases like the rosetta stone, that was found ina rubble heap by French forces and eventually given to Britain as part of war confessions. Should that frenchman have left it in a pile, doomed to be destroyed because it doesn't belong to him?

It's not British museum but the koh-i-noor diamond that's part of the crown jewels, often claimed that the UK should give it back. Who do you give it back to?

Do you give it to India as the successor state of the kingdom of Punjab who handed over to the British after they lost a war? Do you give it back to Kashmir as the successor of Jammu who the Punabs stole it from? Do you give it to Pakistan as it was once the property of the Sikh empire? Or do you give it to Iran as it was first record in the possession of Nader Shah?

What's wrong with AI?

There are so many channels that produce creative visuals for their videos, even if they don't have deep skills, like plenty of people draw stick people in paint and it's miles more creative than the guys that just put vaguely relevant stock footage in the background

Not to commit a high crime of having a nuanced take on a circle-jerked to death issue. But many of the "stolen" artifacts only exist today because they were safe guarded by the musuem. Many more would be at best, kept in complete private collections away from the public and historians. And plenty more don't have a direct modern day counterpart, or have split modern ancestry, so don't have a clear place to return them to if they wanted to return them.

And yes, there are some artifacts where none of that applies and they should be returned, but I would believe those to be the minority.

Honestly that whole joke is getting a bit overused now.

Personally I think there's a big difference between being perceived as a man and being directly told "no it's not "shitty people", it's men"

You can't really do much about people's perception, but you can absolutely change whether you're directly a dick to someone because of how they were born.

So what is your point?

What is your smug, dismissive attitude achieving?

I know this statement doesn't apply to me, but it still hurts me. Just the same as any generalisation.

I'm sure you'll say something about privilege, and I somewhat agree, but someone having privilege does not make it okay to completely dismiss them and group them in with shitty people for things out of their control.

And again, rhetoric like this is one of the reason that young men are moving away from progressives into the hands of the alt-right. If you want things to get better and want men to be better, the first step is to not be an asshole to them for no reason.

Found Ben Shapiro' lemmy account.

But seriously this isn't a rich and powerful thing. Practically no one, from any background is given felony charges over what Hunter did.

I think history is going to see Ame leaving as the turning point of Hololive. Where it's meteoric rise and "golden age" came to an end.

Hopefully it's not the beginning of the end, but it's certainly the end of the beginning.

This but replace the last text with something like "wow what an echo chamber"