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That's the state of computing in 2023: a browser disguised as a native app running 15 layers of Javascript is used as a friggin terminal. And nobody bats an eyelids, as if the utter insanity of it made any sense.
And the installer is 117M compressed. That's MEGABYTES... For a terminal!
The mind boggles...
I've been using Alacritty for the last 4 years, it's kinda the opposite of this nonsense. It's written in Rust, it's super light weight, highly optimised, and uses hardware acceleration to render the terminal. It's top of the chart for every terminal performance benchmark conceived.
However, that lightness and fastness comes at a cost. There are some basic features they just won't add because they're outside the scope of the project. Eg, tabs ("just use a tiling wm and do your own tabs in the wm") or a scrollbar ("just use a shell with a scrolling screen buffer like Tmux"), or different coloured backgrounds for each opened window ("why would anyone ever want to do that?").
My holy grail terminal would be something like Alacritty, written in Rust, blisteringly fast and light weight, but with tabs, scrollbar, bookmarks, etc.
I find myself falling back to using Konsole a lot these days, it's got all the features I want, is fast enough, and already installed on every system I use Plasma on.
Me too. I just ran time tree across my home directory a few times. Native console (ie C-A-F3) - 54 seconds, Konsole - eight seconds.
Waveterm is still installing (Arch AUR). The fan has a Gentooesque sound to it as a suspiciously complicated thing gets built. Oh God ... electon ... terminal shaking ... golang ... fans whining ... lap melting ..... the Old Ones are stirring.
The deps for this thing are many. " I watched Firefox builds on Gentoo glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate". OK, its now arrived and my laptop case is making ping noises as it cools.
It takes 10 seconds or so to start up. Look pretty. Accept license agreement (wtf). Now what? Hmm lets try typing in that box. OK. time tree. Go back to Lemmy to type the last two paras of this comment, get bored and uninstall waveterm.
You nailed it. Too bloated (300 MB, wtf), too slow, incompatible with zsh and fish, no tiling, too few keyboard shortcuts, and way, WAY too much wasted screen space.
Back to my sweet, sweet Konsole.
I've been a KDE lover since 2.0 or so. I recall compiling it from a tarball for a laugh and it mostly working, which was quite a surprise. I think I had Slackware installed at the time on my desktop and KDE 1.x on it.
Anyway, 23 or so years later ... I'm looking forward to 6. Things have changed a bit 8)
♥️ KDE default apps ♥️
Dolphin, Konsole, Okular, Skanpage are so nice and I wouldn't be able to live without them. They feel so polished and solid, and somehow manage to have all the features I want without feeling cluttered
Have a look at wezterm
+1 on this, I switched to Wezterm on my windows work machine to get most of the features missing from alacrity without having to go through the hoops to get a tmux like experience on windows.
I used to do Windows -> Alacrity -> WSL2 -> Tmux then launch my Windows powershell core session inside that terminal.
I never understand the whole thing around "fast" terminals. How can a terminal be "slow"? Surely the terminal you're using has no effect on the programs you're calling, so what's being measured here?
I get what you mean, it is an interesting question to explore.
For me, it think it appeals to my obsessive engineer-brain, I am hooked on chasing efficiency.
Eg, if one tool uses 10MB ram and takes 1second to complete a task, and another tool takes 50MB ram and 5 seconds to complete the same task, then clearly I want to use the more efficient one. The other must be wasting resources, right?
When it comes to real life software and real tasks, it is a lot more complicated than that, there are hundreds of variables to take into account and compare. But if one tool stands out among the others, optimising to achieve the best number (fastest time, lowest power draw, lowest ram use, etc) in each comparable variable, then I absolutely must use that one, it would be irresponsible not to, right?
Throw hardware acceleration into the mix, and it takes the situation to a new level. Why make my poor CPU render the text on the screen 60 times per second, when I can get the GPU to do it? It's just sitting there doing nothing, and it's better at the job anyway, and as a bonus you get even lower CPU utilisation and lower ram usage.
However, as I described in my previous post, chasing these numbers can come at the cost of usability. That's the case with Alacritty, and why I will be switching to wezterm.
The very few times your programs end up spamming a ton to stdout I guess
Konsole is my second favorite terminal app. Wezterm may be your holy grail.
I swear. I quit using iTerm and moved to Kitty because it was too inefficient and was eating up my battery on the go. There are so many apps that are just diguised browsers that eat too much memory and processing power and they make needing a powerful machine a requirement if you want to have multiple apps open. It's getting to a ridiculous point and it's inconvenient.
I don't understand why desktop JS apps don't use React Native at least. It's still JavaScript but doesn't use a browser, and renders to native UI widgets. Far lighter than Electron.
Well with react native you still have to deal with the native problem which a developer doesn't want to deal with, you know... You could... But if they really cared about making the app efficient and well they would have had a different decision making process... People nowadays don't really just the right tool for the job, they just have a tool and try to turn it in a universal hammer and solve everything with it
Waiting for the "fRee rAm iS unUseD raM" comment.
But wasted ram is still wasted, unlike if the ram was actually used for caching or actually speeding things up, not bootstrapping a freaking browser
Oh that one pisses me off so much... they act like its the only damn thing i have open.
Exactly, your program using the minimum of RAM allows more for other programs to run and gives more memory for the OS to cache literally anything that isnt their web app, likely the filesystem, and that is a much better use of the RAM then letting electron or some such eat it all.
This is why I use WezTerm and Guake. iTerm2 is okay on OSX.
"modern", when it comes to terminals, usually translates to Javascript / web / electron
We are used to badly optimized webapps but there's some that definitely manage to be snappy wothout taking too much ressources
From their FAQ:
Q: What shells does Wave Terminal support?
A: We currently only support bash. […]
Seems at least dishonest to advertise it as a "terminal" if it works only with a specific shell. It's okay to have extra features enabled by escape codes emitted by the shell, but if it goes beyond that, I'd say it's not just a terminal anymore.
It is a cross-platform terminal that supports only bash and only on Linux and MacOS
Ditch Vim for quick updates.
GAAAAAAAASP
^heresy^
Looks like bloat to me
I'm unsure that I would find this useful. While I might want a good solution to view web content on the terminal (with a modern, w3c standards rendering engine) so that I can do less outside of the terminal, I don't think I see the utility of using web tech to power my zsh and vim usage. I am enjoying my balance of utility and perf with kitty.
I hope you have a good experience and share your findings.
I will absolutely not use an electron terminal.
Looks like Electron. Oh boy...
I just finished my perfect st build after switching from kitty. So I'm not really interested in getting something even more bloated then what I used to use.
At least they aren't going for the new user friendly marketing they were a few weeks back, as they have nothing that would of helped me as a new user a few years ago
Interesting concept, I like the design, but the workflow is rather odd and would take some getting used to. Also, things like the UI need some work on scrolling, like the Sudo connect window scrolling the password out of sight if you fail the password entry.
I've been looking for a terminal with better bookmark support; I use mRemoteNG on windows for my RDP/SSH work, and I haven't been happy with any alternative on Linux that handles session bookmarks like that. I'm curious to try this.
the hell are terminal bookmarks?
I manage a lot of systems, so just click to open a ssh session in a new tab. I usually have shell aliases, but a bookmark that could set the title of the tab to the hostname and account for easier nav would be my goal. Being able to dynamically open tab groups too would be good, like if I have a dev/prod/SQL server for an app I could 1-click to open a group of 3 tabs
Well, there's this if you want to use it in Linux, I've used it before, liked it well enough, but not paying for it so I removed it (It's sort of crippled if run free). I personally use Konsole on KDE which works quite well. I've read and think that Konsole also allows multiple bookmarked connections. I haven't really tested it myself, I have roughly 10 machines I log into daily so I may try that further.
Before I made the leap to Linux years ago, I loved using MRemoteNG. Simply hands down the best. IMHO
I tesed the client posted here by the OP. While it looks pretty nice, it suffers the same thing as others I've tried. Nothing beats the simplicity of the plain 'ol shell in Linux or in OSX. :)
Windows Terminal has profiles that you can configure a lot so you can have SSH profiles too, don't know if that fits your use case exactly though
"cross-platform" but it's not available for the most popular developer OS (Windows) 🤔
Edit: most popular OS as per the Stack Overflow dev survey: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-most-popular-technologies-operating-system
most popular among c# devs
Across all devs that fill out the Stack Overflow survey: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-most-popular-technologies-operating-system
which is less responses than all linux distros + WSL
My kinda cross platform 🤘
I'm looking for a terminal like warp that's Linux compatible and this initially looked promising but the comments on how bloated it is is discouraging.