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France arrests nearly 1,000 rioters in fourth night of violence (www.politico.eu)

submitted 1 year ago by Determinator to c/[email protected]

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[–] Lenins2ndCat 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The media are predictably focusing on the businesses that are being attacked and trying to frame this as if it's a horde of animals with no political cause whatsoever who just want to loot stuff.

The catalyst for this event was a police shooting of a 17 year old, but the political backdrop is an absolutely massive amount of discontent between the working class of the country and the wealthy.

The things that are getting targeted are overwhelmingly icons of the rich, or literally the financial institutions themselves. Businesses seen as serving the rich are in particular targeted, such as iconic high-fashion stores.

Yesterday(friday) the figures were as follows, tonight(saturday) they have been worse:

250 bank branches were attacked last night. Some have been burned to the ground.
31 police stations were attack, some are completely burned out.
11 gendarmeries were attacked.
Socialist symbols, phrases and agitprop are the primary form of graffiti being tagged everywhere

This isn't mindless. This rage is an explosion that has built up ever since the yellow vests fought for fuel, or the workers fought for their pensions, on a backdrop of increasing cost of living and declining standards. All the while the businesses, hedgefunds and financial institutions post record profits.

The French population has been fighting with the state for a number of years now, and each battle they have hardens them a little more, grants thousands of people actual experience in battle with the state, and then they take that experience into the next inevitable battle. Thousands go to prison each time, and these thousands eventually find their way back into the population where their time in prison now makes living in the current society impossible. They come out hardened by their experiences and ending the current society is literally in their best interests. If yet thousands more get added to that total, things will continue to escalate in France, year on year, there will be more catalysts and the number of radicals will rise and rise.

I see no off-ramp.

[–] Determinator 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Really interesting breakdown, thanks for sharing that.

[–] Lenins2ndCat 4 points 1 year ago

Very similar situation over here in the UK. Difference is that France's left is more organised, and much more radical. Here in the UK the left's organising infrastructure was demolished by Thatcher when she went after the coal miners. All leftist organising at the time was built around unions in the dirty industries and manufacturing, so when those industries were destroyed by her along with the absolute ravaging of the north of the UK the communist influence across the country got demolished with it. We've rebuilt to a certain extent along new strategies focused on utilities docks teachers and the NHS but it has taken 45 years to do so.

The French on the other hand? None of that happened, so the radical organising tradition continued without a gap. A lot of people look at France and think there must be something unique to them that causes it but the reality is that the differences is the size, strength and organising power of their left. And by left I mean left of liberal, liberalism represents the centre-right across europe, very different landscape.

[+] rist097 -10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh shut up please. What a load of bullshit.

Getting woken up 3rd time this year, to a huge bonfire of burning cars. Targeting the rich? This is ridicoulous. A note I saw on a car that burned last night, something in the lines of "Thank you for burning my car, from a single mother with 3 children". And you refuse to call that mindless

[–] Lenins2ndCat 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You are literally a fascist that was openly defending against the defederation of Exploding Heads. Your opinion is completely discardable, and nobody is fooled by your attempt to pretend otherwise.

[–] rist097 -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Hey man, first relax. You are accusing me of being fascist because I was against defederating. What I am standing against is what you just said, that my opinion doesn't matter. Even though I don't agree with you I will never say that your opinion doesn't matter, that is my stance against defederation. I don't agree with what they are posting on exploding heads, but I don't think their opinion doesn't matter.

The paper from the car burned last night, it was a father not a mother my mistake. "Merci pour un papa seul que va bien galérer avec ses 3 enfants". Do you think this person deserved to be left without a car, while he was struggling bringing up 3 children? Did he have anything to do with the killing of Nahel? Why is he the one that is getting the consequences?

Edit: I was using harsh words in the first comment, I was still under the impression for what was happening outside.

[–] Lenins2ndCat 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I do not think this person deserved to be left without a car. And the ruling class who have done everything in their power to drive people to this unrest is responsible for it.

But fascists always misdirect their blame, because fascists lick the boots of the ruling class while desiring even harder oppression than that which has caused this. I strongly suggest you look on at what is happening and ask yourself which side you want to be on when things get considerably worse, (which is inevitable in the consistently accelerating crises of capitalism we're in) because if you continue to be a fash you will end up on the direct receiving end of it just as occurred in the past.

[–] rist097 -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Redirecting the blame will not solve anything, you can blame rich people for many bad things happening, but blaming them for anything that crosses your mind is making your argument weak.

I saw the children that were burning the cars last night, they are at max 16-17 yo. They need to learn that their actions have consequences, it is a part of growing up. Telling them that what they are doing is fine "because rich people exist", they will never take responsibility for their actions, and will always find someone else to blame. There is no possible way for you to justify their actions, because violence does not justify more violence.

I strongly suggest you to stop labeling people you disagree with as fascists. It seem to me that you don't even know what fascism is. I don't know how old you are, you sound really young. Its really hard to take you seriously in a discussion with that attitude.

[–] Lenins2ndCat 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nobody is "redirecting" the blame. The government created the conditions that caused this. Happy and well cared for populations who have their needs met without oppression do not riot.

You are the one trying to misdirect. You are the one rolling out the greatest hits of hitler, reagan and thatcher. Trying to blame the individual and personal responsibility instead of the real source of the problem.

If you treat people like shit, eventually they fight back. Fuck around and find out.

I am probably significantly older than you are, having been an organiser in the UK left for several decades now.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Did he have anything to do with the killing of Nahel? Why is he the one that is getting the consequences?

I'm pretty sure the people protesting against police violence and those who take advantage of the chaos to burn cars aren't the same people.

I don't think this car was burned as a protestation against the murder of Nael.

Maybe it would be better if the government listened to the people and reformed the police to prevent such incidents, also not force laws that 70% of the population don't want. If protesting wasn't need, these guys wouldn't be presented with an opportunity to burn cars and smash windows.

More repression will only amplify the problem, all we can do is wait for the next presidential election and hope it won't be as catastrophic as the last one, and maybe we will even have someone who will do something pour que les papa seuls soient moins en galère pour s'occuper de leurs enfants.

[–] yellowmnkey 3 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Is the size of this protest comparable to the retirement age one or is this on another level

[–] Lenins2ndCat 1 points 1 year ago

The size of the retirement protest was larger because it had more time. This is more like an explosive spontaneous uprising of destruction targeting the rich that has spread from one city to many cities.

[–] Determinator 1 points 1 year ago

Honestly the numbers for both these, and the previous pension reform protests seem to be all over the map depending on the source. The consensus I'm seeing seems to be that these protests are far smaller than the pension reform protests earlier this year. More localized as well.

[–] Klinker 1 points 1 year ago

It’s less about the number and more about the violence, these protesters are taking part in looting, vandalism and destruction of public property.

Source: I live in Paris and I can see the destruction around me

[–] BestBouclettes -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nah, the pension protest had much larger popular support, as it affected basically everyone. Most of the demonstrations here are just walks to protest about police brutality and the pointless death of a kid. And then you have the actual riots that make a lot of noise but don't have actual support.

[–] Lenins2ndCat 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

but don’t have actual support.

Leading politicians support it. Melenchon in particular has not condemned it and has had a very "fuck around and find out" response to the situation. The left largely supports it.

EDIT: Downvoting does not change reality. What is wrong with americans and just trying to invent their own reality?