The most secure OS named windows : memes

[–] [email protected] 63 points 7 months ago

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Microsoft but I don't think this is one of them. First, Windows Defender is quite good as far as antivirus software goes. If you ever had to do desktop support in the days when Norton, McAfee, and AVG reigned supreme, then you know what I'm talking about.

Second, one of the biggest challenges for an OS vendor is backwards compatibility. Especially since Windows dominates the enterprise space and has for the last 25+ years. Big corporations can get really cranky about their legacy applications from 1998 that are still basically holding the entire org together. While it's short sighted to not be proactive about keeping your technology current, it's also a reality that many businesses simply aren't proactive.

Windows definitely has its flaws but it has come a long way in terms of both security and reliability over the years.

[–] Katana314 21 points 7 months ago

If Linux was the world’s most popular operating system, it too would have tons of vulnerabilities.

There’s two sides to that statement; one being that increased attention leads to more findings. The second being that in order to become popular, it would need a large set of simplified convenience features aimed for mass consumers; and those are often what lead to vulnerabilities. (Same story pretty much happened with Android)

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

Meanwhile, giving myself root access to my own computer is a bitch. I need to just switch to Linux

[–] Static_Rocket 8 points 7 months ago

You know what, if it keeps me from getting weird phone calls from my gramps once a month it's good enough.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Precisely because Windows has been the main target for hackers and malware, for being by far the most used OS, it has caused Windows today to be the best protected OS, with a Defender that is currently one of the best AVs on the market and a effective Sandbox system that prevents any changes without user intervention in the root system. Hopefully in terms of privacy it will be just as good, at least by default it is not like that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Windows Defender bad?

[+] [email protected] -10 points 7 months ago (4 children)

I understand that antivirus software is necessary on Windows, but I'll never understand the existence of Windows Defender. If Microsoft knows enough to prevent a virus that exploits something in windows, why are they putting their effort into an antivirus program, and not fixing ththe problem in Windows? If someone has a good explanation for this, I'd love to hear it.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Because... They are? Whenever there is a problem in Windows itself, they release an update to fix that ASAP.

Defender doesn't just work against viruses that exploit weaknesses in Windows. It also works against viruses in programs the user installs. The purpose of Defender is the same as any other antivirus software, to detect known virus signatures in downloaded software, as well as attempt to detect programs that display virus-like behaviour. It also attempts to ensure that users only install software from sources they trust. For these purposes, Windows Defender is at least as good as most other antivirus software on the market.

I would also generally recommend using an antivirus program on a Linux/OSX machine, unless you really know the risk you're accepting by not using one. Even then, I recommend occasionally running ClamAV or a Malwarebytes scan. There is a misconception of "there are no viruses for non-Windows platforms", but the thing is that a lot of viruses these days are cross-platform compatible, and all it takes is one program or dependency becoming an infection vector. Keep yourselves safe, people!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

That makes a lot of sense, thanks!

[–] dzervas 1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I never got where the misconception of "*nix doesn't have malware" came from. Maybe from the 2k era where "malware" was anything that was slowing down your PC (I also don't get why a malware would slow down your PC, unless it's a ransomware)?

I remember the c99.php shell from way back which is an amazing example of cross-platform (PHP can run anywhere) "virus" and it was considered a golden standard (2010 era?)

[–] GeneralVincent 2 points 7 months ago

There's also the kind of malware that uses your PC to mine crypto without you knowing. And especially back in the day there were plenty of trolls just infecting computers with malware to slow them down for fun. And since malware is just software, it's all gonna be made differently so there probably plenty that just has bad code.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

I think it's born from a misinderstanding of infection statistics, especially back when windows was also more popular on servers.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Tell me you know nothing about software without telling me.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

I know nothing about software. That's... Why I asked.

[–] dzervas 1 points 7 months ago

wow, you should become a teacher or something

[–] dzervas 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

ok so let’s start with the exploits. Exploit is a bug (problem) in a piece of software that when… umm… “abused” (well the word is just exploited) it allows you to do stuff that you shouldn’t. An exploit could be live from your browser to the program you use to zip files. The top 2 reasons to use an exploit is to either get initial foothold on a machine (e.g. an exploit in a browser that would allow an attacker to execute arbitrary code when you visit their page or an exploit in winrar that when you open a zip file executes code)

From the attackers perspective, you got in, nice. Mind you you got in through means that have nothing to do with windows (and that’s true most times, especially on desktops). but now? what?

You hacked into the machine for a reason! You might wanna grab the browser cookies (giving you direct access to the accounts that the victim is logged into), grab some files, screenshots, passwords

That’s where the AV kicks in. After the initial exploit the malware behaves like a normal program. But not completely. Assuming that the AV hasn’t seen the same exact malware before (which would an insta kick ban) it’s going to see a random process accessing files in chrome’s directory. HUH. ISNT THAT SOMETHING. quarantined.

Wanna start listening to each and every keystroke? quarantined

Meanwhile the way that the exe ended up in your system was not through an installer, you don’t provide an uninstaller and it was downloaded from www.xXxveryNicEsiteyou.got. HUUUUUUUH

the whole process is a bit simplified of course, but it captures the general idea

So why does linux not have an AV? FUCK IF I KNOW! It would be very, VERY useful. Writing malware that bypasses AV is an art of its own. Can be done for sure, but it’s an extra step and it’s not fun

background: used to get paid to do shit like that (legally, pentest) and it’s a fun hobby (writing code around it, not hacking people)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Makes sense! I guess without an antivirus there's no way of distinguishing legitimate activity from illegitimate activity at the system level when dealing with downloaded programs. Also, my Voyager app decided that your "link" was actually a link and tried to make an embed lol

[–] dzervas 2 points 7 months ago

exactly!

sorry if I overexplained/oversimplified a bit but I didn’t want to make assumptions ☺️

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

why does linux not have an AV?

I can recommend running ClamAV, if anyone is looking for a good one that runs on Linux.

[–] dzervas 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I've never even considered ClamAV. I have the idea that it's just a malware signature DB (changing the signature of a binary is almost as simple as recompiling it with a bit different variables)

Am I incorrect? does it have heruistics/active scanning?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It is pretty exclusively a file scanner, but that, combined with Linux's privilege separation, any decent firewall and not willfully executing untrusted files is enough for most cases, I would say.

[–] dzervas -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

what kind of privilege separation? you’re talking about containers/namespaces?

cause as it is linux desktop has 1 unprivileged user and that’s it. from an attackers perspective privilege escalation is irrelevant - you have access to the screen, keyboard, browser, files. there really is nothing left to gain from gaining root

and if you have any reason to gain root, it’s super easy by just replacing sudo with an alias in .bashrc you’ve got the user’s password

We REALLY need sandboxing and soon, that’s why I want to give fedora silverblue a try but my hopes are quite low

btw windows is in a bit of a better place and M1 mac is in much better place

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If you want sandboxing, isn't firejail pretty exactly what you're looking for?

[–] dzervas 1 points 7 months ago

I’ve not looked into fire jail in depth but I’ve read lots and lots of bad takes on it

What we need is docker with a better graphics integration, in terms of both ease of use and security. maybe wayland can help in that (cause with X you just forward the whole management socket and that’s it, anyone can draw anything)

There’s a chance that snap has done it right (I know that everyone hates it but there’s a CHNACE that they got it right in terms of security and ease of use)

flatpak “is not enough” since the controls it gives you are not enough. first you need flatseal to disable stuff per application and the defaults aren’t good enough and steam for example REQUIRES access to the whole home folder which defeats the whole purpose

[–] sternail 2 points 7 months ago

I‘m sorry you got downvoted for asking a question because you don‘t know. Good old reddit behavior…

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