this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023
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Linux

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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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I've been seeing all these posts about Linux lately, and looking at them, I can honestly see the appeal. I'd love having so much autonomy over the OS I use, and customize it however I like, even having so many options to choose from when it comes to distros. The only thing holding me back, however, is incompatibility issues. A lot of programs I work with very often are Windows-exclusive, and alternatives supporting Linux are rare. So I guess I'm stuck with Windows, since I deem those particular programs really important.

Any advice from Linux nerds here? All constructive replies are very appreciated.

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[–] [email protected] 88 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Depends on the program.

  • Games: Proton works well 99% of the time.
  • Office: I use LibreOffice as much as possible. At work, I use the Web version of MS Office; it doesn't have all features of the desktop version but it's good enough for my use case.
  • Media editing (music, image, video): GIMP, Krita, Kdenlive and Ardour are more than enough for my personal use.

In general, I would recommend trying the Linux alternative, and if it's not good enough, use a Windows VM or dual-boot. If you spend 90% of your time in Photoshop or any other professional software without a Linux version or feature-complete alternative, you should stay on Windows, and maybe use Linux only when you're not working.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I second this, OP, this is pretty much the state of it, but I do recommend trying out a Linux program called Wine, it can run some windows programs in your Linux environment. It's not always the best, but I run a circuit making program there and I only had a bit of issue once. I just wanted to mention wine since some stuff works well with it, but now I'm realizing a VM might be better if it's multiple programs lol. Oh well.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Unless you have very specialized requirements (and quite possibly you do) the solution is usually to unhook yourself from thinking of needing specific programs and to instead focus on needing to perform specific tasks. (Then finding the Linux way to perform that task.)

Barring that, the codeweavers suggestion is a good one. I used it in my early days when I thought I couldn't live without particular pieces of Windows software and although that was several years ago, even then it was pretty good about being able to easily run arbitrary Windows software. IMO it's cheap enough to be worth the investment.

If you truly have bespoke requirements that just can't be satisfied by either of the above, staying on Windows may legitimately be your best option.

More generally - if you decide to take this step, expect to have to learn to use a computer substantially differently than you have in the past. It's not harder; in many ways it's easier. But if you are very experienced and comfortable with Windows, a lot of concepts are going to feel foreign to you. Tackle one task at a time and your experiences will build upon each other. Go into it expecting to have to learn, and you'll do fine. Bizarrely I find the least tech-savvy folks sometimes have the easiest time transitioning.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago

Use an alternative, or

Use Wine/Proton, or

Use a web app if it exists, or

Run Windows in a VM.

For me, the first 3 options covers 99.9% of my usage. It's been a long time since I had to worry about installing Windows in a VM.

But to be fair, my requirements to use Windows software are very limited and non-critical. If:

A lot of programs I work with very often are Windows-exclusive

...then I would certainly consider keeping a Windows laptop around. Right tool for the job and all that.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well you can't really use something not useful to you. Yes Linux is very nice but at the end of the day you gotta use the thing that gets the job done.

[–] cybersandwich 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Agree.

Take this from someone who has spent entirely too long fighting to make certain software and games work on Linux..seriously way too much time.

Just dual boot. It's the best of both worlds. You can spend your time in Linux but when you want to play that game or need to use your special software you can just switch into it.

It also gives you the flexibility to try alternative software but you always know you have the real deal on your windows partition if you get stuck.

[–] grue 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I hate rebooting to play games (or even just closing my other software, for that matter), so I choose to reject games I'd have to reboot for.

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[–] sparr 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're no more stuck with Windows than a Mac user is stuck on a Mac.

[–] danielfgom 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If they are Windows exclusive then your best bet is to simply run Windows in a virtual machine inside Linux and run the applications from there.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Can you give us specific examples of the programs you use, and what you use them for?

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[–] AnUnusualRelic 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I switched to Linux from Windows 3.11 because Microsoft software didn't do what it was supposed to.

My method is that I don't even know what's available for Windows, so I don't miss it at all. The opposite isn't true though, and time spent in a Microsoft environment can quickly become painful.

My only regular contact with Windows is the Steam partition which hasn't been used for quite some time. I have a laptop that has a small win11 partition that I boot every now and then to see what they're up to these days.

However, in the end, the only real answer is that if you really need a piece of software, you just run whatever system that supports it. It's not a religion, you use whatever is convenient for you at a given time.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ooh, Win 3.11? Which version of Linux did you switch to at the time?

I don't recall the kernel version, but my first was Red Hat 5.2 in the late 90s. I didn't switch to Linux permanently though, had it on dual-boot. But eventually it was SuSE that won me over, with their YaST tool and polished KDE implementation - seemed lightyears ahead of Win 9x and ME at the time.

[–] AnUnusualRelic 8 points 1 year ago

At the time, I installed slackware with a lot of floppies.

Now, after trying quite a few, I settled on OpenSuSE Tumbleweed. It has one of the best KDE desktops, and basically just works, whatever you do with it. It's comfortable and boring which I see as great qualities.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

When I needed Windows for a piece of software, I ran Windows on another computer. Later I got into a position where I didn't need to use that software. 😁

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

My approach has been to slowly learn how to play to the strengths of Linux and not pine after anything on Windows because ultimately I've gained a lot more than I've lost.

The one piece of software I haven't been able to avoid keeping around is Sigma Studio, so I have a 10 year old shit top for running it, but it also runs in a VM if I need it. Thankfully I only need to use it once or twice a year.

If you rely on multiple pieces of software for important everyday activities and they aren't usable in wine or a VM, you probably have no choice but to use the operating system that is the best vehicle for those tools. Doesn't stop you from also using linux for other stuff, but I can understand how that's not the same as going all in.

[–] grue 17 points 1 year ago

Any company that doesn't support Linux doesn't deserve my patronage.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
  1. Use alternative that is FLOSS
  2. Use alternative in the browser
  3. Try WINE/Proton
  4. Use Windows VM
  5. Use dedicated Windows machine
[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Libre Office completely takes care of my Office needs.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

if the documents exchanged by others used complex macros written on VBA using excel it looks pretty bad on Libreoffice.

[–] theRealBassist 5 points 1 year ago

Office 365 online can be a good stopgap for those cases if you need it.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

I'd say make a wholehearted attempt to try open alternatives even if you stay on Windows for the time being. I had been doing so for a few years before I even considered Linux and by the time I finally did switch the transition was a lot smoother.

That being said I've been surprised by how much stuff actually does run under WINE!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

We ignore them, mostly. You cannot miss what you don't know.

There are plenty of options however to access software not available natively. Both VMs and Remote Desktop solution work for a wide range applications. Web-based solution can be as good as desktop programs.

So many casual applications are now either web-based or on your (not FOSS) phone, so for my personal use the thought of using Windows has never crossed my mind. Professionally, I resort to remote Windows or a Mac.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

It would be easier if you told us specifically what programs you need that aren't supported.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Web apps (for MS Office/Teams), Wine (mostly for games and random apps), and for everything else, an optimized Tiny11 Core VM + WinApps for seamless windows/integration with Linux. My Tiny11 only uses 0-1% CPU and 600MB RAM on idle so I've got no issues running it in the background, besides it takes only a couple of seconds to launch, if I wanted to start it on demand.

I've also got a portable SSD with a copy of Windows installed on it, just in case I need it for some firmware updates or something (although I'm on a Thinkpad so pretty much everything can be updated via LVFS, but I keep it around just in case + it's portable so there's no harm in having it around).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Winapps is pretty cool! Thanks for sharing. I didnt know that existed till now.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The same thing I’ve always done - booted another OS that works with that software. No need to artificially limit yourself.

Once upon a time I remember running Dos, windows, os2 warp, and linux on one hard drive. Those were the days…. Ya ya, I’m going back to my retirement home bedroom…

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

There are numerous ways to deal with it, depending on the specific application and use-case. For some, there's an open-source alternative that, while not 100% similar in every aspect imaginable, does offer basically the same functionality (LibreOffice for MS Office Suite, Thunderbird for various email clients, Firefox or just Chromium for Google Chrome). For others, you can use an emulator (WINE, for example). For games specifically, Steam offers an emulator that works for most games (Proton); in fact, all the games I've tried worked. Then, there's the very last option, which is using a virtual Windows machine within Linux. I mention it last because I honestly haven't found many cases where I absolutely needed to do this, and because the set-up is rather "involved", shall we say. But if you're using Adobe Suite stuff then, yeah, you basically got no choice there.

Would you mind listing some of the essential programs that you use so we can get a better idea what your workflow is?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

I generally just avoid it, otherwise I use it on windows, I still use dual boot with windows and Linux, will probably stop after w10 stops getting security updates since I don't really care all that much about windows specific stuff

[–] Tattorack 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I already used open source programs on Windows. The programs I'm using to do all my work with are Krita, Blender 3D, Gimp, and Libre Office.

They either started out on Linux or support Linux natively, so switching to Linux didn't really change any of the programs I use. The biggest change is playing games, but Valve has made it very pain free.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

It would be nice if you say in the post which apps are those that hold you. People would be able to suggest solutions.

[–] linearchaos 8 points 1 year ago

Native>wine>pwa>VM

My win11 VM sits on my disk, most days it stays off. It starts in 30 seconds and I use remina to remote into it. It sucks that I lose 60gb of disk, but it's fast and everything just works.

We use Google docs at work so that's an easy win.

Outlook's Progressive web app is 99% awesome.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I either find an alternative or use it under Wine-GE

[–] sep 8 points 1 year ago

Without knowing the exact programs, you can only get general answers.

If there is no direct alternative program, you can change your workflow to use other programs. Or you can try to run those important programs in wine. Or i can run those in a terminal server, or via a windows vm. Or more lately many programs come in web versions that works for everyone.

I have used linux exclusivly on my daily driver for about 23ish years.i mostly work with the linux side of things. And the few windows things the company require i use web versions, or a windows vm.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

If you must and you have the hardware maybe run Windows in a VM just for those applications. You can even suspend the vm state to resume from where you were.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Lots of Linux-only software too

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure which programs you're using so hopefully something here can help but here's some stuff I've read/done:

  • For MS Office, I believe you can just use it in your web browser or use LibreOffice as an alternative.
  • If you use anything Adobe-based, you'll probably have to keep a Windows partition around or find an alternative. I haven't seen anything for running Adobe in WINE or WINE-based tools and I'm not sure if Adobe functions in a virtual machine or not.
  • Most gaming-related issues can be dealt with via Proton (Steam's compatibility tool). I've successfully gotten just about every game I play to run in Proton, with the only issues being EA's launcher (the game still launches though).

If you have any specific programs that you have questions about, feel free to ask. Hope this helps!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Try WINE. Raise issue with devs. Or just decide not to use it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Depends. Steam and Proton handles most games and if not, I'll check Lutris. FWIW, some games like Doom and RollerCoaster Tycoon (the Sawyer, 2D era) have open-source remakes that work on modern machines.

For regular software, I will try it in WINE and if it provides a good enough experience for daily use, I'll keep it there. If it doesn't, for any reason, I'll stick it in a Windows VM. For instance, Exact Audio Copy will work fine in WINE provided you get .NET 3.5 installed for the MusicBrainz metadata plugin, but MusicBee has severe enough problems (font redirection problems, lag when scrolling, can't drag tabs) for me that I just use it in a virtual machine or another PC. (I actually have another rig I'm considering using as a "jukebox" machine, since I have macOS on it and use it for Apple Music, so I'm compartmentalising my music to one machine if that makes sense)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

One of my computers has windows on one of the ssds because I have to use windows for work software once every week or so for about 20-30 minutes and there are a few other windows programs that I need to use occasionally.

Basically I use Windows for a couple of hours a month and Linux the rest of the time.

[–] mvirts 4 points 1 year ago

First start using ardour gimp inkscape libreoffice and blender on windows, then dual boot or use a VM to install Linux and start challenging yourself to use it for real stuff when you can. You may eventually realize you're using Linux much more than Windows, like when you boot into Windows and every time require a bunch of updates. Eventually your windows will be so out of date you remove it entirely or start using a windows vm.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Depends on what you do. I take care of this .Net 4.2 backend project which is not compatible with Linux in any safe way. For years I used windows and tbf I enjoyed it, but I am back to Linux and I use a VM with Windows on it to run the project on Rider. I have a setup which allows me to use the backend in this VM and the front-end, database and all rest is native on Linux. It works well for me with the downside of RAM usage, but I designed this laptop with this kind of use case in my from the very beginning so 64GB of RAM I have enough room to run the VM and everything else I need and steel have a snappy environment. I like it better this way, Linux has evolved so much in the past years I am honestly very impressed.

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