this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2023
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Lemmy NSFW

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Updates about lemmynsfw.com

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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

Update: I contacted with current big owners, other older friends and lastly from some friends from here. Mostly all of them living in US so they don’t want/can’t host it. So I’ll keep hosting without being on moderation side. @[email protected] will post about details I guess. @[email protected] is the new top admin.

As you know, it has been 2 weeks since I opened the instance and it has grown quite a lot. Likewise, the time I have to devote to this work has increased a lot.

I'm dealing with lemmynsfw more than my IRL job right now :D This is bothering me. Also, having an NSFW instance instead of a normal instance makes things much more difficult. If you remember; I had my biggest scale fuck up with the post "we allow loli content" :) This situation wore me out. Also a lot of problems are bothering me, both as a software and as a community.

That's why I'm thinking of transferring the instance and the domain to a person I trust. Who can maintain the deployments and also know this stuff. I will also roll over any donations made, excluding the current month's expenses.

I'm sorry if I've upset anyone. That's all from me.

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[–] [email protected] 133 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

Hey just a quick FYI, if anyone here in the US is thinking of taking this instance over, I would strongly recommend becoming extremely familiar with correctly implementing section 230 of the Communications Decency Act and related laws. And I don't mean just reading it and thinking "I am a smart person, I get this now". I mean learning how large social media sites and their T&S teams actually implement it for real. Otherwise you will very possibly go to a PMITA prison and wind up on the sex offender registry.

I'm not messing with you. The feds do not fuck around with this stuff.

[–] danc4498 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is an interesting point. I am reading this from a different instance. I wonder if merely federating with this instance from a US based instance requires the same thing.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, there's a discussion on the lemmy github that sort of touches on this issue, because right now instances cache federated content. So let's say somebody posts a bunch of illegal content here, and before it gets nuked by mods it gets federated to beehaw, which caches the material. Now beehaw is technically hosting illegal material, and they may not even realize it.

[–] Guy_Fieris_Hair 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Honestly would make more sense if everyone defederated it for this reason. If you want lemmy.nsfw, go to lemmy.nsfw. That way none of the other instances have that risk. And I personally would be fine if NSFW didn't show up randomly in my feed. When I want to see it I can swap profiles or switch instances.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Sure, but that disincentivises people from posting and participating in the community, because forcing people to have two profiles is a significant barrier. Easier and better to just implement not caching images flagged nsfw in the codebase

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

American law is honestly just deeply convoluted and annoying. Having to take into account the 50 mini countries in a trench coat hyper-specific legalities is so fun!

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

You're not wrong, but the CDA is federal. TBH, if this instance were hosted in or run by someone in North America, they would probably want to get a lawyer well-versed in this sector of law. I can recommend a couple if it comes to that.

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This instance isn't my jam but an instance like this should really have a team behind it. That is a lot to start but once it is set it becomes immensely easier. Consider it, but it also is respectable to pass it off. Good luck.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Completely agreed. This is just too much for just one person to run everything.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a heads up, I am more than willing to help with the front admin stuff, backend just isn't my expertise. If someone is willing to do the backend more I can do more front end stuff. I'm experienced with management of large communities and would be comfortable approaching some of the current pressing issues in a transparent way as well as opening up some discussions with other instance admins to try and address their concerns. I'm honestly just approaching things the same way I did when dealing with a large minecraft server. Horny adults are just grown up feral teenagers, I guess.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, I wouldn't mind helping with some of the admin load as well. Honestly, I think a space like this is important. I also have a fair amount of experience in the professional NSFW field, on the production and distribution side, so I'm at least familiar with a lot of the issues.

To be clear, I am in no way volunteering to own or host this instance. I absolutely can't handle that level of hassle right now. But admin stuff, I'm down.

I also think that if somebody does take it over, we really need to have a larger discussion with everyone about transparency, mission, administration etc. Like is this going to be a community, or is it going to be a fiefdom? It's really hard to have both.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I agree. Presenting a united front within the admin team is likely the best way to move forward from here, as well as to best move forward and address some recent problems. I think communities like these are important, specifically well managed NSFW communities. NSFW communities are going to exist regardless, but careful coordinated moderation really needs to be a priority to make it a space that fosters content that can exist in a legal and safe fashion. I feel also if this community is going to survive and maintain federation with other instances, there needs to be a means of establishing direct communication with other instance admins. I've reached out to some yiffit admins today to try and create a line of communication at least on that end. I think generally though that instance admins even outside of lemmynsfw need to coordinate together regardless and have open lines of communication to make sure their communities are interacting in healthy ways as well. That open line of communication between instance management helped mastodon stabilize as a community when a bunch of users flooded in.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago

This is overkill, just don't host anything you aren't comfortable with, and let people go make their own for anything you aren't. That's the entire point of defederated design. Ignore the idiots who think this is reddit and are screaming about censorship and let them go deal with the headaches involved by making their own places. Signed a fellow sys admin of many years who actually knows what this is like.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Respect man.

Even though you're stepping out, you've done amazing work kickstarting an essential part of this new ecosystem.

I agree the software can be a bit of a pain in the ass to manage. And humans. They can be quite annoying, especially in mobs.

Again, thanks for helping this revolution get started, and hopefully you'll find peace in a less demanding role of this movement.

Even though it was short, it's been a treat working with you.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

Hope you stick around as an admin, while I may have disagreed with some of the things you've proposed and done, it's really refreshing to have someone in charge who not only actively listens to the community, but goes so far as to ask the community about possible issues and matters that haven't been brought forward.

Really gives a human face to the community, thanks for being so down-to-earth here.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (35 children)

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]

Friends, I sent an offer to some knowledgeable people, but they said they could not do it. Understandable for sure. Is there anyone among you who has the knowledge to make the migration to their own server without me?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Can you give more information on the setup ?

Are you renting a VM? If so can you migrate the account over to someone?

Was this setup with Ansible or Docker ?

DevOps Engineer I deal with migrations all the time

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

Sorry you got so much shit for that, you definitely didn't deserve it. Thank you for all your hard work and goodluck going forward.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago

Thanks for all the work you've put into the instance - best wishes.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

Big thanks for getting things started on this growing platform! 🙏 Was a bummer that big instances like lemmyml jumped straight to de-fed but figure thats part of the growing pains. Your efforts are still appreciated.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Well thanks for full transparency! I think that’s dope.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That’s why I’m thinking of transferring the instance and the domain to a person I trust. Who can maintain the deployments and also know this stuff.

It's somewhat unclear if you're looking for someone, or you already have someone and just letting us know.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Adding my internal monologue here:

  • it would be a shame to close THE nsfw lemmy server, especially since it's so new and at the same time it got so much traction
  • however, because it got so much traction, the costs will rise quickly (both in terms of money and personal time invested)
  • to all you porn enjoyers (ie everyone), you can't expect this lemmy server to survive by its own - there is no company behind it to finance it, there are no investors, there are no ads
  • the only way this could work is if a lot of the people coming here would donate

I have close to 20 years of IT experience, growing from a stupid dev to a stupid manager. One of my last positions was engineering manager for a Twitch clone, which had pretty small numbers of users - the most we saw was 10k concurrent users on a stream. I'm saying all this not to boost, but to convince you that I'm not pulling things out of my ass - costs can easily reach 5 figures monthly if the growth of this server continues.

Now, if you have a phone or laptop, and the internet connection needed to visit this lemmy server, you do have spare change. If you could donate 12 dollars or euros PER YEAR, spread out in 12 equal payments of 1 dollar or euro per month, you would help immensely. Really. 1 moneys per month. You can afford it. You can be a fisherman in Uganda and still afford 1 dollar per month. You have enough coins thrown around in your car to make several months' payments. So do that now, go to Patreon and set-up a monthly payment of 1$, if you want to see this server still around a couple of years from now.

@yay, if you do want to donate the server to someone, here's some ideas on how to make the server work and grow:

  • have a k8s setup (k3s on a couple of nodes works really well)
  • PostgreSQL HA (from Bitnami) on the cluster
  • separate storage box (or boxes, with CephFS or some other distributed filesystem)
  • another separate nsfw server for scat/gore/other weird shit so lemmynsfw doesn't get defederated
  • consider setting up a company to own all of this, in case of legal issues
[–] Crackhappy 16 points 1 year ago

Thank you for all that you've done, it's very much appreciated. Don't feel bad about it, I totally understand why it's overwhelming. You couldn't pay me to run a server like this.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

I have absolutely no interest in the front side admin (content moderation, etc) but if we can find hosting in a country that won’t send me to prison for being a part of this, I can do most sysadmin of backend.

Whatever admin team develops from this feel free to dm me and we can discuss how that would work.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I am interested since I run servers and already have the infrastructure in place.

I just have to get familiar with running a Lemmy instance on Docker. Also, I don't see any documentation on how to transfer a Lemmy instance.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think he means he already has someone to transfer to, he isn't asking who wants to take over.
Still, you could open your own instance if you have the infrastructure, it's always good to have similar instances in case one of them goes down or something.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

I think this is incredibly important, in some ways this instance in particular, but no one can ask for more from you

Nothing to apologize for - you're not leaving everyone high and dry, you're hanging in there and working through what sounds like a personally difficult transition.

So I'll just say this: thank you for taking the responsibility thrust on you with due seriousness. Most people don't understand the importance of community, and what we owe to it.

When you hand it over, do it knowing your part is done, fully and completely.

And if you need to step away, step away - do the exchange from a distance, and if things fall through and no one you trust is there to take it, that's okay too.

I think there's a certain amount of responsibility when you find yourself at the center of something, but that responsibility only goes so far - if you need to step down and the community won't step up, that's not on you

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Huge respect for being the change you wanted to see in the world. This instance needed to be created and I'm glad you were the one to pull the trigger.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Thanks for creating this place. No one should be upset at you for hanging up the hat.

I'm sure everyone understands that moderating us degenerates is task that takes a heavy toll on one's sanity.

Wishing you the best on your future projects!

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Thank you for your hard work. It's amazing how well things have taken off here. I wish you well, and good fortune to the new brass.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Thank you for everything that you've done until now. There will always be a minority of haters, but please know there's a lot more of us who really appreciated your work (even if we are relatively quiet).

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

It'll be sad to see you go, but perfectly understandable considering everything that's happened. Just opening the instance alone and governing it for as long as you have is already an amazing amount of effort, so I hope you won't lose sight of that in spite of all the challenges.

Definitely hope you take some time to take care of yourself as you step away from here. Best of luck with finding someone to take over.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Thank you for starting this instance. Your personal life is more important and you have already done a lot by starting this community.

[–] manic77 11 points 1 year ago

Thanks for your hard work.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Thank you for starting this instance and all your hard work, I appreciate how open you've been with this community and hope you continue to be part of it even when you pass it on. I understand it must take a lot of time and effort to maintain this service!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

brah you are not to blame - life comes first

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

I get it, it's really difficult running an instance. Expecially at this scale. Especially nsfw. I probably couldn't do it. Thank you for your service.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

You already did the hardest part - to start the whole thing.

I hope that you find someone whom you trust to pass the torch to.

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