this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
191 points (91.7% liked)

World News

32507 readers
963 users here now

News from around the world!

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Hans Niemann was accused of cheating after he beat Norwegian grandmaster Magnus Carlsen last September.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 90 points 1 year ago (7 children)

This was a joke invented by r/anarchychess. I'd be amazed if it were real.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

I remember when I first heard the rumours and I immediately thought of how sensitive one's anal linings would be to perceive Morse code via a butt plug. Then pondered upon the max possible bandwidth of buttplug-mediated information transfer. Finally, I thought about how to send back information via rythmic anal clenching.

Only then did I conclude that it's probably easier to get better at chess.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

A YouTuber tested it and confirmed it's not that difficult to detect messages. They didn't use Morse code but rather a simplified set of signals for move notation

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's in the ankles, right? I guess even if it's a different part of the body than the inside of one's butt (a sensitive part of the body), makes it plausible that it's also possible for communication (perhaps one-way—towards the plug wearer).

I'm assuming the accomplice would then be watching through some camera feed, right? That makes it at least plausible since there's no need for kegels (to send information the other way).

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If it's the same video I saw, it was the ankle guy. And yeah, when it comes to historical cases of chess cheating (almost always at a lower skill level) they'll either use some form of chess computer that they sneak away to use, or have an accomplice and a one way method of communication.

Another thing to keep in mind is that often times players at this level don't need to cheat every move, they just need to be given the correct move at an important moment and they'll be good enough to understand why they are being told to do that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah, yeah~ I actually wasn't really into chess, but I was intrigued about how it might actually work in practice. Like, perhaps a code taken from chess notation, and then optimized to keep messages to a minimum. Such messages are then composed of bursts of vibration, some longer and less intense, and some short but intense. This is where my mind went to bandwidth, lol! How fast can you alternate "dots" and "dashes" such that they would still remain distinct from one another, and not be perceived as just one long buzz session?

they’ll either use some form of chess computer that they sneak away to use, or have an accomplice and a one way method of communication.

It's the first case that I thought about when I first heard of this. Kinda like braille, but for butts. And then rather than use your fingers, you clench your butt. That way, one can operate a chess computer while seated in a tournament. At the end of it, I was like "that's some serious kegel action!"

An accomplice sending the necessary hints/information would be more plausible, I think. And now that I'm thinking about it, electrical impulses (through the skin, like in the small of the back, another sensitive area) might do the trick as well, perhaps going full braille action this time.)

But yeah, I just enjoyed overthinking about something like this. No offense meant to anyone. I'm just like "maybe it's stupid enough to work?"

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I find that the overthinking can be fun, but the most common cheating method is to simply relay the position on the board that contains the piece to move.

For example, let's say that the best move would be to move a pawn on b4 (same column as White's left most bishop, in the 4th row) a signal would be transmitted of two short "signals", a long pause, and then four more short "signals". Thinking in Morse, this would be "../....".

This tells the cheater that the correct move is made by the piece in the second column, fourth row, and thats usually all a top level player will need. They can stop calculating any move that isn't from that piece, and there's usually one move that is clearly better from that pieces immediate moves. The difficult part is now finding which follow-up moves are the best and how to punish your opponent for not playing them (which they would have been doing anyways, just with many more possible start points)

This method has been used in the past with a device that will send a non-painful but noticeable electric shock to a player (usually on their thigh), and because these individuals got caught there are now methods in place at top level tournaments to try and prevent external cheating devices from entering the playing hall (ex/ they pat you down to try and feel something rigid on your leg).

Thats where the butt plug theory comes in; it could theoretically pass through a standard metal detector, a security guard isn't going to check your prostate for cheating devices, and it can still theoretically be used to communicate via 0s and 1s.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My analysis didn't really go deep (pun unintended) into the details of how the information might be encoded, but taking a cue from what you'd said, position can be encoded into six bits: 000;000 would be a1 (white king's rook starting position, right?) and h8 would be 111;111 b4 would then be 001;011. Perhaps we can save things into just three bits (there are just seven unique pieces in chess: pawn, rook, knight, white bishop, black bishop, queen, and king) if we just need to communicate which piece is to be moved. Maximally, the accomplice can communicate both the piece and the destination in nine bits, though following this discussion, it seems there's not much need for it, and it'd introduce complexities that would hamper comprehension (like having to distinguish between the three cases so far: position of the piece to be moved, the piece to be moved, or the piece to be moved and the location of the destination).

As for how to send information (as opposed to receiving), there's only one signal that would be needed, if the accomplice is watching a live feed of the match: "Help!" which would be a continuous anal clench, or something fanciful as clenching SOS to avoid any random anal clenching to be mistaken for a call for help.

Now, as for a cheating device inside a butt plug not triggering a metal detector, I don't know for certain, but I've got no reason to disbelieve you. If there's someone that manages to pull it off though (the entire thing, sneaking in a device up their butt and using it to cheat at live chess competitions), I'd love to hear about the details.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

While 6 bit encoding is definitely a more efficient way to transmit the data, when it comes to stuff like this transmission speed is rarely a consideration. In high profile tournaments, players may have several hours each during a game (for example, the game in which Niemann is alleged to have cheated used a time format of 2 hours for the first 40 moves, +1 hour upon reaching move 40, and +30 seconds after completing every move after the 40th. Across 2 players, and assuming they make the 40th move, that's a 6 hour game total).

So when it comes to things like this, the main considerations are accuracy in transmission and comprehension of the message. If the player has to compute from binary to the board (which is an albeit really easy skill), there is still a chance that they can misinterpret the data. For this reason, most formerly caught "at the board" cheaters have used the simple "count columns, count rows" method.

More complex cheaters (who do not use an accomplice) have in the past gone to the washroom to find a stashed chess computer, plug in the position, see what the computer thinks, and come back.

Even amongst some top players, it's not uncommon for someone to play a move and then go to the washroom for up to 30 minutes and come back to see how their opponent responded. I mention this to further emphasize that 1) spending a really long time not making a move is relatively common and 2) while most cheating does occur in longer periods of thought, that in itself is not an indicator for cheating.

As for your mention of sending information, it can be a lot simpler than what you proposed. Since this method requires a relatively unrestricted view of the board, it is more than likely they will also be able to see the player, making physical signals a far easier method of communicating "HELP!!!" than becoming a kegel master. You could organize before hand something like "if I run my left hand through my hair and shake my head, I need help", and upon seeing this the accomplice could transmit the piece location.

And my theory about the butt plug being able to be smuggled through a metal detector is not based in a proven fact, but rather the assertion that if you could get one through a metal detector, which may or may not be possible, there would be no other checks in place to prevent a player from entering a hall with one.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, in terms of the other direction, the game would theoretically have an audience and livestream.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, that makes sense.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

The thing is that the game was broadcast live. One-way communication was enough

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We need an expert on this. You gotta go find the guy that designed that butt plug revolver with the clench activated trigger.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Wait, what?! That's actually a thing now?!

Not really up to speed with butt-tech. Hahaha! There goes my search history!

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago

Best joke about that I saw was a video of Hans playing someone and looking confident up until a blunder or something. Then he realizes what happened and puts his face in his hands and closes his eyes.

The comment on the YouTube video was: "when the computer gives up and then switches to pleasure mode"

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I play chess and I have a... a friend who uses a vibrator

So ofc it's real, just not Hans

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Yeah that's what I meant. It's not that it's not real, but the origin of the meme was Hans saying something to the effect of "I'll play Magnus naked to prove I'm not cheating" to which everyone responded that the anal beads technique would be how he did it. Of course the corollary of that is that there are numerous ways for him to cheat while fully clothed.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Gomez 58 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wasn't there a documentary about this with Danny Devito?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes. It was very informative. Highly recommend!

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago

I read the title as "dies" instead of "denies".

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

For those who haven't seen it- even if you don't have a background in data science or chess, this report is extremely damning. He's an unapologetic, manipulative, pernicious cheater.

https://www.chess.com/blog/CHESScom/hans-niemann-report

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's 72 pages. Are there any highlights for interested non chess fanatics?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] skybreaker 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm not convinced by that report. Their cheating detection method is inconclusive and if Hans had the ability to perform the "best" move in every circumstance due to cheating but didn't, that to me points to it being less likely. There are a lot of statistics in that report that seem extremely circumstantial like the "plateaus" in strength rating. If he was really cheating in the tournaments, I think there would be a whole lot more evidence.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

This is "a whole lot of evidence". If he had, for example, a 10% chance to show up suspicious in any one of those charts that's one thing. But to be highlighted as the most suspicious in each is extraordinary evidence. How do you explain a greater than 10% drop in skill when a 15 minute TV delay was put in place? Or his ability to make incredibly complex, perfect moves in seconds? Or his continual, nearly unstoppable strength rating growth, you know, except for the two natural plateaus in rating where most players never continue to grow firmly in the middle of his growth curve?

If that report doesn't convince you, I doubt anything will.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

If he always did what the engine tells him to do then the evidence would be overwhelming, yes. Hans is surely aware of this and avoids doing so because he wants to get away with it.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Uhhhmmm, I don’t want to be intrusive, but how exactly does one use small beads to cheat at chess? I’m trying to figure this out, …but I keep losing anyway.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah. The whole comment section seems like it's super obvious... but seriously... how does one cheat with anal vibrators?

[–] DakkaDok 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's important to remember that he is certainly still very good at chess, even if he cheated in some games. He wouldn't need to have every move given to him, it might even be enough to give him a single signal that there is a non-obvious great move in a current position. Even just knowing that would probably be enough for him to find it by himself.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That's a good point. You wouldn't need to send an entire move. If you simply sent a message indicating which piece is the best to move, the player probably can find the place to move that piece.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Didn’t you see the always sunny episode?

[–] qaz 6 points 1 year ago
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Luvs2Spuj 14 points 1 year ago

Still the greatest story I've ever read. I'll tell my grandchildren about this one day, and that's when they will put me in a home.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Morgan continued: "To be clear, on the specific allegation - have you ever used anal beads while playing chess?"

The 20-year-old replied: "Well, your curiosity is a bit concerning, you know - maybe you're personally interested, but I can tell you, no.

I don't know about you but when I appear in a very serious interview and talk about the multimillion dollar damage an unfounded allegations has done to my career, I really want to make sure that I include some weird kink shaming right there in my defense. That will surely make me seem like a serious person that sponsors can trust.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it was rather commenting on the interviewer's inappropriate intrusiveness into an intimate topic rather than kinkshaming. Understandable that Niemann got defensive there, IMO.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's literally the allegation.

How do you interview without asking about the allegation?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's the meme allegation, the real allegation is just cheating without any butt stuff.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] zepheriths 8 points 1 year ago

Well seeing as chess.com has reinstated his account. We have no reason to not believe him

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

"Release the butt plug cut!"

[–] Gabu 4 points 1 year ago

The fact that's a thing is hilarious.

load more comments
view more: next ›