this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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sdfpubnix

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(not sure if this is the right community, sorry)

Hi, someone posted this on another server. I'd like to request we defederate with rammy.site and exploding-heads.com as well. I scrolled through some of their posts and comments and it's full of ridiculous anti-left propaganda, for example a post where some liberal Florida family fleeing the state when some child protection laws got passed, implying liberals abuse children and won't live in a state that doesn't allow them to. Just take a look for yourself.

" Admins of Lemmy.ml please consider defederating from rammy.site it has been taken over by right wing malicious actors from exploding-heads.com and the admin is nowhere to be found.

It is imperative that you take action as soon as possible the users on rammy are using the site to spread their messages to a further audience, we must nip this in the bud. If you don't believe me check the instance for yourself, you'll see it dominated with bigoted right wing posts and spam communities."

Edit: So many commenters think this is about political opinions or disagreement. It's not. If I said "Mixing bleach and ammonia is good for you" I bet some of you would call that a political disagreement.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (19 children)

If I am reading the situation wrong, I apologize.

The reason that I am not a member at beehaw was because they were overly wrapped up in concerns such as this one. I'm here for enjoyable chats with people, not to take sides in the latest macro-politics or causes or whatever lately is stirring the pot or making the winds blow. These things are fine and some people are interested in them, but I'm turned off by the idea of an instance that is particularly identified one way or another when I am not concerned with any of that.

What I'm looking for are kind souls that share an interest in technology and an instance that was widely federated so that a wide variety of my interest groups (music, weightloss, networking, ancient Stoicism) are available. That's why I joined here. SDF has been around a long time and many who have enjoyed its offerings have held many different opinions and yet shared this resource peacefully.

I'm particularly turned off by people that want a silo with only the right causes, only the right thinking, only the right speech.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have management and protection of against those that are unkindly trolling or actively trying to do technical damage. Ban those actually doing evil. But if people of good cheer share different views kindky as neighbors and friends, I have no problem with that and don't want to see that roped off.

Remember the two rules of FidoNet? "Don't be excessively annoying. Don't be easily annoyed." That's all I'm saying.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

ancient Stoicism

Is there modern stoicism? And if so, how is it different?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

There is the English dictionary definition of stoic and stoicism with a small s character. There is also an ancient philosophy of Stoicism both ongoing and with a recent revival currently ongoing.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I joined this instance because it doesn't block/ defederate. Everyone can pick what they want to see cutting it off is stupid.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago

I too joined this community because it hasn't blocked nor been blocked by any other community on Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I joined this instance because I wanted to learn, collaborate, and share tech- and art-related ideas in an environment not toxic like commercial social media that has been filled with bad actors. An environment more akin to the 1990s BBS systems where tech-misfits are free to be without being subjected to hate from those pushing anti-social philosophies.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is that a policy of this instance?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's a policy of the community. You really should read sdf.org faq. Best regards.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

This is the closest thing I could find that was related, can you send me what you found?:

Any illegal activities which includes, but certainly isn't limited to spamming, portflooding, portscanning, unauthorised connections to remote hosts and any sort of scam can really not be tolerated here. Why? Because there are many here on this system that can suffer from this sort of abuse. If you want to use SDF, you really have to care about this system and the people here. If you don't want to care, then you really shouldn't use this resource.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I did read the FAQ before asking this, I did not take it to mean it's a policy of the server not to defederate.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

https://sdf.org/?tutorials/social_network

SDF - The Ethical Social Network What 'Social Network' means to us (a history lesson)

....To the users of the SDF Public Access UNIX System, 'SDF Social' is based on the concepts and principles of the early Social Networks that we have always been a part of and not the highly commercialized, for-profit and ethically questionable Social Networks of the late 1990s and 2000s.

Simply put, SDF has always been about Collaboration, Non-Commercialism, Choice and Privacy.

Choice is very important here. Anyway best of luck in your endeavour whatever it is.

Also in the IRC section there's something about "Common sense" it's a great read. Just saying. Best regards.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I seriously doubt sdf.org will defederate due to political, religious or other kind of views unless some kind of danger to its users is involved, and even then I'm pretty sure we would go to ARPA votes over it. While the instance might be recent the community behind sdf.org is ancient (I say this with my utmost respect for them ) so yea, not their first rodeo or last one. If you don't like the views of those instances feel free to block them yourself. Best regards.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

Imo deferderating should be a last resort. And so far I haven't seen any excessive cases of people coming over and breaking the rules of this instance.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Please don't! The whole reason I made an account here is because they don't defederate. I want to control what I read. If you have a problem with a certain instance or user, block them yourself! It's very easy.

I don't want to have to spin up a whole instance just for myself.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I can block users or communities but I don't think there's a way to block instances.

There are some tricks you can do with uBlock, which I've done, but that doesn't help on apps.

I hope this feature gets added to Lemmy at some point.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So, the effect of "blocking an instance" is that you'd be blocking all users from that instance? Seems like a useful feature.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

What I had in mind was only to block posts from that instance when browsing "all". Exploding-Heads and Lemmygrad, for example, each have a lot of different communities that are all ideologically identical and it's tedious to block each one individually.

But I like your idea even more. Blocking all users from an instance should also be possible at the user-level. This would be similar to defederation.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (16 children)

I decided to see for myself so I could voice an informed opinion. One of the first posts I saw on their (EH) Local channel, titled Based Pride Month, is an image of a headline reading, Saudi Arabia Celebrate Pride Month by Hanging Gays with Rainbow Noose. This is hateful content. My ability to discern such has nothing to do with savvy. I don't want to see these opinions because they are grotesque.

However, I haven't seen ExHeads leaking out into the greater Lemmiverse. That said, I want nothing to do with anyone who considers this ok. Even if they are currently fairly contained, they have made it clear who they are and I choose not to surround myself with bigots.

I vote to defederate. We don't need to wait for them to become a huge pain in the ass. They are showing us who they are.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You said it better than I was going to. Keeping truthaboutjews.ru out of grandma's feed is one thing, but I feel like I'm savvy enough to read garbage responsibly. Maybe I'm being overconfident but there it is.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Do you have the same level of confidence in children and people who are deeply mentally ill?

If you want to read far-right trash, you can set up an account on a far-right trash server, rather than insisting that everybody else on the instance tolerates them for your convenience.

Their posts might be a harmless novelty for you but for others, they're threats of violence and celebrations of abuse.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

Yep, exploding heads is a cesspool.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'm not in favor of defederating over political preference at all. I don't come to this instance expecting an echo chamber, and an echo chamber is precisely what I do not want.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's not political difference, it's disinformation and propaganda. Just look, even if you're conservative you should be able to see how messed up it is unless you lack critical thinking skills

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

lemmygrad.ml is also full of propaganda and nobody seems to be trying to defederate it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

lemmygrad is actually pretty far up the rankings in the defederated-by stats I saw a couple weeks ago 😅

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Whether people have a right to exist or have basic human rights is not political preference. And disinformation is in direct conflict with free and open knowledge and learning.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Maybe I should have removed the word "conservative" in my post. Oh wait, I didn't use the word conservative. This isn't political, but if you took it to be political, that would imply to me that you consider spreading false information to be part of the conservative platform.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Yes, please. I'm very much in favor of this, too.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have to wonder if the people staunchly against defederation at any cost ever dealt with redditors from hate subs following them around reddit from sub to sub everywhere they posted to keep screaming at them about trans women not being women, while also repeatedly reporting them to Reddits suicide bot to try to make them think about suicide. It's not exactly the nicest online experience and I had it more than once in my time on reddit.

To me the benefit of federation includes defederation. If it was easy to just say "get rid of all the users from r/hatesub" on reddit it would have been a lot nicer. I don't know why people are clamoring to keep hateful shit around. Go join the hateful shit instance if you want to read it so bad but I'd rather the users of an instance like that not be able to see me at all since queer people like me are who they hate so bad, and I can't exactly block all of them.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

If they have anything interesting or non-hateful to say they'll say it on another instance. The hate they spew is only on these instances because the admins are hateful.

If there is a vote I will vote to defederate and I'll sleep perfectly well because the slippery slope fallacy is just that. If I want to see their hateful garbage I'll sign up for an account there.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

I don't like right wingers either but I do not believe that suppressing speech helps anyone (unless people start doxxing, swatting, dogpiling, etc) but I just went to check out exploding-heads and the first I saw was this clip of a Pfizer representative admitting that their employees got a different COVID vaccine in a senate hearing. I mean, can someone debunk that? Is it just taken out of context? Is the video doctored? Is this "fake news"? If so, provide data and sources. If you suppress something like this you're not doing anyone a favor.

And now that almost 80% of the population are vaccinated anyways, the "vaccination hesitancy" argument doesn't really hold value.

Just went through some other posts there and I don't agree with a lot of their takes. Reading their rules I see no reason to defederate.

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