this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2025
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/26244492

The answer to "what is Firefox?" on Mozilla's FAQ page about its browser used to read:

The Firefox Browser is the only major browser backed by a not-for-profit that doesn’t sell your personal data to advertisers while helping you protect your personal information.

Now it just says:

The Firefox Browser, the only major browser backed by a not-for-profit, helps you protect your personal information.

In other words, Mozilla is no longer willing to commit to not selling your personal data to advertisers.

A related change was also highlighted by mozilla.org commenter jkaelin, who linked direct to the source code for that FAQ page. To answer the question, "is Firefox free?" Moz used to say:

Yep! The Firefox Browser is free. Super free, actually. No hidden costs or anything. You don’t pay anything to use it, and we don’t sell your personal data.

Now it simply reads:

Yep! The Firefox Browser is free. Super free, actually. No hidden costs or anything. You don’t pay anything to use it.

Again, a pledge to not sell people's data has disappeared. Varma insisted this is the result of the fluid definition of “sell” in the context of data sharing and privacy.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago

Mozilla have been slowly but steadily turning to shit for years now. Long ago already, they became the kind of company that lays off workers in order to pay the CEO an unreasonable amount.

I think that the moment people should've seen as a turning point where Mozilla stopped giving a shit about the users was when they did all of those unpopular UI changes a while back (like removing compact mode). They used telemetry to justify these changes, while I'm sure they must've been aware that their "privacy focused browser" schtick probably attracts a lot of people who switch telemetry off. And even if they were that stupid, the over all reaction online to the changes should've been enough of a clue for them. But they still did it anyway.

UI changes might be small in the greater scheme of things but the UI is also what 90% of users base their experience on. So it just means that they do not give a flying fuck about the user base. And they're going to be slowly but surely enshitifying the browser whether anyone likes it or not.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I hope, in the end, Firefox and Thunderbird survive...

If Firefox is gone, the clones/forks will probably die as well. And the complexity of a web browser makes it hard to just give the project to some new people...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago

I'm holding out hope that Ladybird works out

[–] [email protected] 6 points 12 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 25 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

This is why it’s hard getting people to like you, Firefox. Please don’t give more reasons for them to stay on Chrome.

[–] isles 1 points 2 minutes ago

Firefox is the weak opposition, dragged rightward by Chrome's Overton window.

[–] DougHolland 17 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Very, very long-time Firefox user here, now open to suggestions for a replacement. Windows, desktop, and it absolutely must have adblocker capabilities.

[–] grue 7 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I have used Firefox for literally its entire existence -- it was still called "Phoenix" when I started using it! -- and even I am on the brink of switching. That's how abjectly fucked up Mozilla has gotten.

[–] DougHolland 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Hello, old timer! Pretty sure it was just plain Netscape when I installed it (not yet called Navigator), but I'd never heard of it as Phoenix. It has served me well for 30 years across a dozen computers, but now it might be time to move on.

[–] grue 8 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

Netscape Navigator was different software. It became the browser component of Netscape Communicator, then Mozilla Application Suite, then Mozilla Seamonkey, and has now been spun off from Mozilla and is just called Seamonkey.

Mozilla Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox was a from-scratch rewrite to make a minimalist standalone browser without the bloat of Mozilla Application Suite, where nonessential features could be added as extensions. (That's why it was initially named "Phoenix": because it was rising from the ashes of Navigator.)

(For the record, I am not so old as to have used Netscape 1.0.)

[–] DougHolland 5 points 11 hours ago

(: Man, the things I learn from smart folks on Lemmy...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (2 children)
[–] root 3 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

Anything for iOS? Or do I need to go back to Graphene?

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Everything on iOS will be based on WebKit. Apple doesn’t allow third-party browser engines on iOS. Even the official Google Chrome app is running WebKit under the hood instead of Chromium.

That’s why browser extensions never get supported on iOS; They’re literally made for the wrong browser engine. If you want extensions, you’re forced to use the default Safari app, because that’s the only browser that natively supports extension apps.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago

This isn’t true anymore, as vendors have the ability to provide other engines within the EU.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I’m using Orion. It stores nothing. It’s WebKit based, I think.

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Everything on iOS is WebKit based. Apple doesn’t allow third-party browser engines on iOS. Even the official Chrome and Firefox apps are just reskins of the WebKit engine that iOS’ default Safari uses.

It’s why things like Firefox extensions never got ported to iOS; They’re made for Gecko, not WebKit. If you want extensions, you have to use the default Safari browser.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago

Not in the EU, at least. Time will tell if any major vendor bothers to provide a custom engine (read: their own). But important to note that this isn’t the limitation it was.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago

Nothing that I know of, sorry. I have never used iOS before and don't know anyone who has.

[–] DougHolland 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

That does look intriguing, especially if being a Firefox fork means I can bring my familiar add-ons along. Thank you!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago

Just be aware that there is a slight chance of sites not working as expecped due to all of the privacy tweaks. It's mostly fine though.

Good luck!

[–] [email protected] 20 points 18 hours ago

It's not hard to define "sell," Varma, and I'm sure you don't want to do it, because the definitions aren't flattering. Here's the Miriam Webster definition:

1: to deliver or give up in violation of duty, trust, or loyalty and especially for personal gain : betray —often used with out

sell out their country

2a(1): to give up (property) to another for something of value (such as money)

2a(2): to offer for sale

2b: to give up in return for something else especially foolishly or dishonorably

sold his birthright for a mess of pottage

2c: to exact a price for

sold their lives dearly

3a: to deliver into slavery for money

3b: to give into the power of another

sold his soul to the devil

3c: to deliver the personal services of for money

4: to dispose of or manage for profit instead of in accordance with conscience, justice, or duty

sold their votes