this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2025

293 points (94.0% liked)

Open Source

33240 readers

490 users here now

All about open source! Feel free to ask questions, and share news, and interesting stuff!

Useful Links

Rules

Posts must be relevant to the open source ideology
No NSFW content
No hate speech, bigotry, etc

Related Communities

Community icon from opensource.org, but we are not affiliated with them.

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

293

Mozilla drops new Privacy Note and Terms of Service; People are saying it is Bad News (blog.mozilla.org)

submitted 1 day ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

47 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Not a good look for Firefox. Third partners and device fingerprinting clearly mentioned in the documents.

The move is the latest development in a series of shifts Mozilla has undergone over the past year.

The gecko engine and Firefox forks, such as Tor, Mullvad, Librewolf, and Arkenfox, are stables of private, open source web browsing.

In fact, Mozilla's is one of the few browser engines out there, in a protocol-heavy industry that many say only corporate or well-funded non-profits can reliably develop.

What is more, daily driving the more hardened-for-privacy Firefox derivatives can be frowned upon by many sites, including your bank and workplace.

Mozilla's enshittification leaves the open source community without a good alternative to Firefox, after years of promoting it as a privacy-friendly alternative to spyware-cum-browser Chrome.

all 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago

I keep Firefox, brave, Librewolf, and Vivaldi All configured and loaded with my plugins and bookmarks.

When Google pulled out of Firefox funding I expected them to go down a dark path.

I don't know that any of those choices of browsers are going to be significantly better than the others long-term. I'm also hoping for ladybug eventually.

LW doesn't seem to play nice with some of my sites and some of my plugins. It's the one I want most to work. The last time I tried it, delivering pass keys out of bitwarden in it didn't work. And that kind of makes it a no-go for me. I should try it again though it's been at least a year.

I'm pretty sure brave would sell my kidneys if they could. But they are the only one on the list that's truly funded and they keep up with the Joneses on YouTube ad blocking. And there also probably the strongest browser for anti-fingerprinting at the moment.

Vivaldi seems to work okay but it's just a Google clone, they've only dedicated to not enforcing manifest V3 for "as long as they could."

[–] AkashicOwl 3 points 8 hours ago

Does using a fork like Librewolf and Ironfox keep you safe from this?

[–] Hiro8811 10 points 14 hours ago

Well it's been a nice time while it lasted but this should be a lesson that nothing is safe from enshitification and corruption. Fortunately there are a few options till something better arrives. Personally I'm waiting for Ladybug

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Which Firefox fork do people recommend? Ideally it should be available as Flatpak, keep the Firefox version number and not have a separate user-agent.

LibreWolf seems to be the best on first glance? https://flathub.org/apps/io.gitlab.librewolf-community

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Zen seems to have picked up a lot of privacy improvements but it's a pretty small team doing a lot of ambitious work. I like it, but it's got a lot of (minor, mostly aesthetic) bugs.

I use mullvad for stuff I really don't want a record of (for as much as that's possible)

On the chrome side, Vivaldi (former opera before they sold out to china) is a good browser, but even more ambitious and even more buggy than zen. It has a built in email client. Like, who does that?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I switched to LibreWolf after seeing these news. It's been working just as well as firefox and you can adjust the privacy functions as much or as little as you want.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 hours ago

I appreciate the recommendation. I've been using Firefox for many years but I admit it's time in the sun is over. It hurts to leave it behind but I guess nothing lasts forever.

Goodbye old friend

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I wish librefox would come to android

[–] AkashicOwl 1 points 8 hours ago

Ironfox.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 day ago

Librewolf is the best ✅

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

I started using Zen today, it seems fine. If you're privacy conscious librewolf is definite the best

[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 day ago (3 children)

People are saying it is Bad News

So, uhh, you want to tell us who is saying it's bad news?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago

gestures vaguely in a direction

Ehh, people, you know?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

I have the feeling people are overreacting to anything Mozilla does these days, just to have an excuse to talk people into using (politically?) worse browsers.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Your mastodon feed might be different that mine, lmao

https://mastodon.social/tags/mozilla

[–] [email protected] 10 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Can you be more specific than pointing in a vague direction?

[+] [email protected] -16 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

This is trolling. It is beyond self-evident that the Open Source fediverse has thoroughly criticized the latest Mozilla move. I myself point out device fingerprinting and third party vendors. You respond to neither approach. You want me to do homework and quantify the sentiment on the trending Mozillla hashtag? Sealioning. Diigressing the topic of conversation? Report and block you sad impotent spook troll.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Onus probandi.

You make the claims, you serve the proof. You can't point at a vague, general direction and go "here, proof!". Especially not a social media feed, that's the most subjective, volatile "proof" you could provide.

Quote me the text, in its full context, where it says that Mozilla is selling the data they are "now collecting", or that it was optional for them without degrading services. Because I can't find it.

All I see is data that Mozilla is required to collect to provide existing services, they are now putting it in black on white. I don't really care what the "general opinion" is, opinions do not automatically become facts once sufficient people hold them.

I've seen Mozilla do bad stuff, this is just a very standard privacy policy update. Let's criticize them when they actually deserve it, and encourage them the rest of the time.

Also, nice strawman instead of simply answering my question. 🥰

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 hours ago

I was on your side until this message.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 day ago

LIBREWOLF

IRONFOX

[–] [email protected] 75 points 1 day ago

On the contrary, I think this is a responsible way to operate. The terms of use apply to the Mozilla distributed binary, not the open source version and open source forks, and I don't think additional terms shut them out of that. The privacy policy is clear, concise as can be and links so that people can jump directly to what is being collected.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 day ago

If Mozilla wants to limit their use of my input, why the do I need to give them a full, non-exclusive license?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Have you considered what is driving this change?

Looking from the sidelines, I think it's all about money, specifically, how to make the development of Firefox sustainable. Yes, I'm aware of the cynical view that this is about lining the pockets of the CEO, I have no evidence for this.

I think that's essentially caused by how we have licensed open source software and had limited resources to combat abuse at the industrial scale that silicon valley companies have monetized other people's work.

Bruce Perens is attempting to erect "Post Open", but I'm not yet sure if that is going to solve the fundamental issues.

Disclaimer: I've worked a little on the community standards document for the post open project.

[–] tomatolung 18 points 1 day ago (11 children)

Being halfway between both sides, I can see the need for a monetary model to sustain development, yet I am challenged by the opacity that this feels like. The OP's point that it feels like a downward slide toward principles compromise is challenging. Especially in light of the enshittification of everything lately, Mozilla needs to do a better job communicating how this is not going down that path and yet also trying to sustain itself.

load more comments (11 replies)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'm looking into Ladybird browser that everyone here is talking about and I can't find anything about when they will release something.

[–] Hiro8811 3 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Alpha will drop around 2026[site], but they have several contributors so who knows. Compiled it a few months ago at it was just a browser without engine, not sure how much it developed now but I'm hopeful

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

Keep an eye on it, but it's not ready yet.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

Time for Ladybird to release their first alpha?

[–] lupusblackfur 3 points 1 day ago

Looks like Mozilla has decided they can no longer ignore the money they can gain from having more and more data to sell.

Joining Google on the ad/data sales Evil Side.

🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ 🖕