Fucking hell, I don't know how seriously I should take this (could it be Errol making things up?) but it is so utterly bizarre. I've just been staring off into space for a minute.
this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.
AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)
This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.
[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]
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Wait wait wait, so you are telling me, not even his bad ideas are his?
One thing you should realize about Musk is that he isnt that smart, and that he also doesnt have much ideas. i think the only real contributions he ever had were the retracting tesla handles that dont work when frozen and the shape of the cybertruck. Even his gamer handle is uninspired. cyb3rgam3r420. And stuff which gets attributed to him, like community notes on twitter, were actually created pre his takeover. The man is a puddle.
you can see this all the time in these circles. yudkovsky's diamondoid bacteria are rehashed drexler's nanomachines
The fact that Iain M. Banks is name-dropped in the poster in the article is a travesty... I have no doubt "the Elon" thinks himself some badass Special Circumstances operative, and OpenAI/Grok/... as laying the foundations for Culture Minds. It's not. He's not. Goddamnit I wish Banks was still alive.
@smiletolerantly Listen, I knew Iain—went drinking with him semi-regularly—and he despised Musk. One of his best villains, Joliet Veppers in "Surface Detail", is based on Musk.
"Veppers... is based on Musk"
If this is true, then it's a remarkable bit of SF foresight, because in 2010, Musk was nowhere near what he is now. He wasn't even in the top 100 richest. He was rich, but not even a billionaire. It was such a different time that even Jeff Bezos was just #43 in the world (this is from Forbes 2010). We didn't yet have our current technofeudalism centered on Internet tycoons; the tech tycoons in the top 10 were Bill Gates and Larry Ellison.
Regarding the main topic of this thread, I too had wondered if the name is a clue that Elon was the golden child of some secret cult of upper-class Space Nazis, their anointed one destined to realize the Iron Dream. But if one is to entertain such thoughts, you should be aware that it was also the middle name of a maternal great-grandfather, John Elon Haldeman, who was apparently a Minnesota school teacher who emigrated to Canada with his chiropractor wife.
I am delighted to hear that Veppers was literally based on Musk
a) how do I keep discovering accounts of people I admire on this platform,
b) I fucking LOVE Accelerando and the Eschaton series,
c) that... really comforts me in a strange way. I always thought Veppers was supposed to be Bezos, but this is even better.
And lastly I am sorry for the loss of your friend.
@smiletolerantly Not to worry, working on a new space opera that hopefully scratches the Banksian itch *and* sticks the knife into the TESCREAL true believers …
fuck yes. I don’t think my brain knows what to do with the happy/excited neurotransmitters that news caused it to produce
Cannot wait for it!!
@smiletolerantly his favourite part of Excession was when Dave Excession shouted "Excession!" and jumped in his spaceship
Considering his reaction to being asked about evangelion (?? I know nothing about this series) was just to shout NERV (?? again I know nothing I dont know who Nerv is. But this is apparently not a normal fan reaction, like warhammer fans shouting waaarrgh) not far of the mark.
NERV is the organization that runs the eponymous mech suits. It's a bit like if someone asked about the Simpsons and he just replied "Springfield!" like yea that's a thing from the show, but couldn't you think of a quote from a character or something?
Wait what. I always assumed it was some quirky side char.
Oh no, it's a very serious (in context of a psychological tragedy sci-fi anime with bionic mecha fighting lovecraftian kaiju) paramilitary national (or maybe a supranational) goverment body affiliated with a shadowy cabal of conspirators.
Its logo is also quite heavily featured on the unscalable mountains of promotional merchandise for the franchise, so it's an easy thing to name drop if you don't know or remember much from the show but want to feel like you're making a deep cut reference because you remember the name from a coffee mug you have or something.
They're a supranational organization that nominally reports to the UN while actually being directed by an ancient conspiracy that is being subverted from within by a modern conspiracy. They build WMDs that are piloted by child soldiers. One of these child soldiers is the son of the commander. Another is a clone of the commander's dead wife (maybe). NERV are the only ones who can stop the annihilation of all life on Earth by the lovecraftian kaiju, because they are the sole possessors of forcefields that run on loneliness.
... But there is a penguin!
Reading this post must be what having a stroke feels like. I would have trouble believing that if this wasn't just how half these kinds of science fiction universes are.
Also it borrows a lot of imagery from esoteric judaism and christianity, but mostly for the sake of aesthetics or very surface level symbolism, a bit like a western show might use buddhist symbolism just for the sake of being a little bit exotic.
Borrowing bits of Christian iconography and such was a thing in anime going back to the '80s, as I understand it, to get that creepy/exotic flavor. In Evangelion, I don't think it's entirely clear how much of the esoteric religious references are supposed to be taken literally and how many are more like in-universe code names (in the vein of Trinity test). Like, maybe the "Dead Sea Scrolls" they keep talking about really are the Dead Sea Scrolls, but NERV named their supercomputers the "Magi" just because they're pompous weirdos.
Ultraman in particular may have been a big trendsetter in using Christian imagery for flavor in Japanese science fiction media at the time.
My take is that the meaning of the Abrahamic references in Eva goes a little bit deeper than just random aesthetics. Most of the allusions fit their mythological counterparts neatly enough, that clearly some research went into them and the references aren't just random. I don't think the series is trying to comment on Abrahamic religion, though. The references are considered and deliberate as worldbuilding devices, but ultimately just there for flavor.
And yeah, jury's still out on whether in-universe they're really invoking biblical figures and concepts or if someone at NERV/SEELE/GEHIRN was simply feeling a bit pretentious with their code name scheme.
Or they deliberately named things like the Lance of Longinus in order to fulfill a prophecy, or make it look like a prophecy was being fulfilled.
LMAO
my god
Same :( Fuck cancer, that man deserved to live longer. I'd love to see Banks' take on society as it is now. I feel like it'd end up being a mix between The Player of Games and Surface Detail.
A begruntled Culture citizen entasked with a seemingly straight-forward matter in a coincidentally-very-earth-like civ where capitalism reigns supreme in all the worst ways. A society on the brink of collapse due to leapfrogging technological advancements while ignoring, and possibly suppressing, the societal changes this necessitates, benefitting only those already in power. Not-entirely-clear motivations of unseen Culture Minds, presumably plotting beyond what is apparent to our protagonist. Getting to re-evaluate this strange society by experiencing first its thrills, then slowly but surely its horrors through the eyes of that protagonist, whose view of the world and themselves can never be the same afterwards.
All the while, a member of this fledgling society, finding themselves aboard the Culture vessel "I'm sorry, I thought there was still money on that card; here, try this one", a state-of-the-art ~~warship~~nope we don't do those, a state-of-the-art Very Fast Picket, earth-bound with engines pushing their limits, is motivated by the fleeting hope of maybe, just maybe, getting there in time to share a crucial piece of information with the protagonist, but - oh, too late. This storyline lead nowhere, and you are still glad to have read it, for the possibly best parts of the book where the witty ship-banter that had you laughing with tears.
Oh we also end the book with the cold-blooded murder of a ~~Bezos~~Musk look-alike at the hands of SC, and thanks to the book you are left with the clear impression that in the grand schemes of things, this was not simply necessary, it was just.
....something like that?
Perfection. In particular, "l'm sorry, I thought there was still money on that card; here, try this one" is the most perfect Culture ship name to have been written since Banks died imo, it's spot fucking on.
💛
He's also a massive Warhammer fan and I don't think that gets talked about enough. He is definitely the kind of person that missed the fucking point and thinks the imperium of man is a good thing.
He probably wants to turn America into a hive city.
I have never seen him post about warhammer, source? Because I disagree with your massive fan thing (he prob doesnt even know the siege of terra used to last a few days, nor the necron retcons), and not sure he ever talked about it, and if he did he might have only talked about it after the fsm/custodes thing was made into a culture war thing.
One of his kids is literally named "Adeptus Mechanicus".
EDIT: Sorry, "Techno Mechanicus". Still.
Not proof of anything, esp considering the vapid tech vibes the other half of this relationship has. They could just have noticed the word hop around. (Sorry, Musk not being that smart and deep is my hill. I also don't believe he is Dittman (Dittman posts/livestreams too much, actually posts jokes that show he understands the culture (Musk doesn't grok basic meme templates), can play Path of Exile 2, and this account predates the lawsuit in which Musk revealed he cosplays as his son on twitter but horny). So I want a bit more than just one reference to prove he is a massive fan and not just references it for nerd points like a sociopath (He also calls his son Tau, which is Heresy in 40k, and a weird mismatch of references). And well both he and Grimes have roleplayed as communists/socialists. So naming a kid for attention is not something I would consider below them).
E: also Tau is their third child, and I really hope the second child (iirc the public doesn't know her name (yes her being a girl, Musks second daughter, makes this all even weirder)) nicknamed Y is doing well. (Now If I thought Musk was deep and complex, I would worry about the missing 8 children after he names the last one Tau, but you can wonder if he even knows Greek).
Some time ago in an article or YouTube video i stumbled upon, someone asked Elon a question why he got interested in space. He answered that he read a book which kindled his interest.
I wonder if it was this. It would make so much sense.
Could also be a different book, as the idea of rich guy does tech stuff which looks like Musks tech stuff isnt uncommon pre musk. For example society of the mind written in 1996 by Eric l Harry, also has a Musk like guy (or how people imagine Musk, mega rich self made, super smart, into electric cars, space sats, selfaware AI systems, guy is also called Gray (same last name as the fifty shades righ guy, if you want to become crazy and start red cording. Eric also wrote a book about a pandemic in 2018 if you want to get really crazy). I have not finished the book yet sadly so cant tell if it has even more comparisons.
He was named for the leader of the society on Mars in that book.
Let's not do their work for them, Musk is a nazi.
Sorry I think that Musk is a neo-nazi now, but he wasn't a couple of years ago (he was an allround asshole and racist yes, but this whole white birthrates neo-nazi shit is quite new (as in the past ~5-10 years)). I believe this for a few reasons, a) because we saw him get radicalized on twitter, via the various tech radicalization patterns. This is also important because more people around us are being radicalized the same way, and we need to find a way to stop this. and b) I don't think he was smart enough to hide his nazism. Him always been a crypto-neo-nazi means he would have been able to hide this for everybody for decades before he came out recently. And I just don't think he is that cunning or smart, he bought Twitter by accident after all.
So yes, he is one, but he wasn't always, and that is important imho. (And small sidenote, I have met people who were named using nazi references from their parents, and they themselves were not nazis (but a bit traumatized by their parents being them), lot of shitty nazis in Europe still. I recall one really traumatized Austrian who while drunk was making himself angry and violent over his shitty parents, poor guy). So yeah I don't believe in a nazi gene in a way.
And don't take this as a defense of the guy, in a way my opinion of him is worse than if he was a crypto-nazi all along. I think he got radicalized via twitter. Like how old people got radicalized into qanon, he is a follower not a thought leader. I just dont think this guy is a smart guy.
@Soyweiser he seems to have been doing the creepy pro-natalist/eugenics praxis for a while… Spreading his genes as an act of generosity to the species.
Before 2020 or so he only had kids with one woman, so this whole massive amounts of kids spreading thing still matches with my theory of his radicalization being late.