this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.
AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)
This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.
[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]
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The fact that Iain M. Banks is name-dropped in the poster in the article is a travesty... I have no doubt "the Elon" thinks himself some badass Special Circumstances operative, and OpenAI/Grok/... as laying the foundations for Culture Minds. It's not. He's not. Goddamnit I wish Banks was still alive.
@smiletolerantly Listen, I knew Iain—went drinking with him semi-regularly—and he despised Musk. One of his best villains, Joliet Veppers in "Surface Detail", is based on Musk.
"Veppers... is based on Musk"
If this is true, then it's a remarkable bit of SF foresight, because in 2010, Musk was nowhere near what he is now. He wasn't even in the top 100 richest. He was rich, but not even a billionaire. It was such a different time that even Jeff Bezos was just #43 in the world (this is from Forbes 2010). We didn't yet have our current technofeudalism centered on Internet tycoons; the tech tycoons in the top 10 were Bill Gates and Larry Ellison.
Regarding the main topic of this thread, I too had wondered if the name is a clue that Elon was the golden child of some secret cult of upper-class Space Nazis, their anointed one destined to realize the Iron Dream. But if one is to entertain such thoughts, you should be aware that it was also the middle name of a maternal great-grandfather, John Elon Haldeman, who was apparently a Minnesota school teacher who emigrated to Canada with his chiropractor wife.
@Mitchell_Porter @cstross Iron Man 2 was 2010
as the other poster pointed out: Iron Man 2 came out in 2010, and Musk’s personality cult was already in full swing since his PR team at the time did everything they could to associate him with the first film. I believe Charlie when he says his friend and fellow sci-fi author knew an asshole when he saw one.
I am delighted to hear that Veppers was literally based on Musk
a) how do I keep discovering accounts of people I admire on this platform,
b) I fucking LOVE Accelerando and the Eschaton series,
c) that... really comforts me in a strange way. I always thought Veppers was supposed to be Bezos, but this is even better.
And lastly I am sorry for the loss of your friend.
@smiletolerantly Not to worry, working on a new space opera that hopefully scratches the Banksian itch *and* sticks the knife into the TESCREAL true believers …
fuck yes. I don’t think my brain knows what to do with the happy/excited neurotransmitters that news caused it to produce
Cannot wait for it!!
@smiletolerantly his favourite part of Excession was when Dave Excession shouted "Excession!" and jumped in his spaceship
Considering his reaction to being asked about evangelion (?? I know nothing about this series) was just to shout NERV (?? again I know nothing I dont know who Nerv is. But this is apparently not a normal fan reaction, like warhammer fans shouting waaarrgh) not far of the mark.
NERV is the organization that runs the eponymous mech suits. It's a bit like if someone asked about the Simpsons and he just replied "Springfield!" like yea that's a thing from the show, but couldn't you think of a quote from a character or something?
Wait what. I always assumed it was some quirky side char.
Oh no, it's a very serious (in context of a psychological tragedy sci-fi anime with bionic mecha fighting lovecraftian kaiju) paramilitary national (or maybe a supranational) goverment body affiliated with a shadowy cabal of conspirators.
Its logo is also quite heavily featured on the unscalable mountains of promotional merchandise for the franchise, so it's an easy thing to name drop if you don't know or remember much from the show but want to feel like you're making a deep cut reference because you remember the name from a coffee mug you have or something.
They're a supranational organization that nominally reports to the UN while actually being directed by an ancient conspiracy that is being subverted from within by a modern conspiracy. They build WMDs that are piloted by child soldiers. One of these child soldiers is the son of the commander. Another is a clone of the commander's dead wife (maybe). NERV are the only ones who can stop the annihilation of all life on Earth by the lovecraftian kaiju, because they are the sole possessors of forcefields that run on loneliness.
... But there is a penguin!
Reading this post must be what having a stroke feels like. I would have trouble believing that if this wasn't just how half these kinds of science fiction universes are.
Also it borrows a lot of imagery from esoteric judaism and christianity, but mostly for the sake of aesthetics or very surface level symbolism, a bit like a western show might use buddhist symbolism just for the sake of being a little bit exotic.
Borrowing bits of Christian iconography and such was a thing in anime going back to the '80s, as I understand it, to get that creepy/exotic flavor. In Evangelion, I don't think it's entirely clear how much of the esoteric religious references are supposed to be taken literally and how many are more like in-universe code names (in the vein of Trinity test). Like, maybe the "Dead Sea Scrolls" they keep talking about really are the Dead Sea Scrolls, but NERV named their supercomputers the "Magi" just because they're pompous weirdos.
Ultraman in particular may have been a big trendsetter in using Christian imagery for flavor in Japanese science fiction media at the time.
My take is that the meaning of the Abrahamic references in Eva goes a little bit deeper than just random aesthetics. Most of the allusions fit their mythological counterparts neatly enough, that clearly some research went into them and the references aren't just random. I don't think the series is trying to comment on Abrahamic religion, though. The references are considered and deliberate as worldbuilding devices, but ultimately just there for flavor.
And yeah, jury's still out on whether in-universe they're really invoking biblical figures and concepts or if someone at NERV/SEELE/GEHIRN was simply feeling a bit pretentious with their code name scheme.
Or they deliberately named things like the Lance of Longinus in order to fulfill a prophecy, or make it look like a prophecy was being fulfilled.
LMAO
my god
Same :( Fuck cancer, that man deserved to live longer. I'd love to see Banks' take on society as it is now. I feel like it'd end up being a mix between The Player of Games and Surface Detail.
A begruntled Culture citizen entasked with a seemingly straight-forward matter in a coincidentally-very-earth-like civ where capitalism reigns supreme in all the worst ways. A society on the brink of collapse due to leapfrogging technological advancements while ignoring, and possibly suppressing, the societal changes this necessitates, benefitting only those already in power. Not-entirely-clear motivations of unseen Culture Minds, presumably plotting beyond what is apparent to our protagonist. Getting to re-evaluate this strange society by experiencing first its thrills, then slowly but surely its horrors through the eyes of that protagonist, whose view of the world and themselves can never be the same afterwards.
All the while, a member of this fledgling society, finding themselves aboard the Culture vessel "I'm sorry, I thought there was still money on that card; here, try this one", a state-of-the-art ~~warship~~nope we don't do those, a state-of-the-art Very Fast Picket, earth-bound with engines pushing their limits, is motivated by the fleeting hope of maybe, just maybe, getting there in time to share a crucial piece of information with the protagonist, but - oh, too late. This storyline lead nowhere, and you are still glad to have read it, for the possibly best parts of the book where the witty ship-banter that had you laughing with tears.
Oh we also end the book with the cold-blooded murder of a ~~Bezos~~Musk look-alike at the hands of SC, and thanks to the book you are left with the clear impression that in the grand schemes of things, this was not simply necessary, it was just.
....something like that?
Perfection. In particular, "l'm sorry, I thought there was still money on that card; here, try this one" is the most perfect Culture ship name to have been written since Banks died imo, it's spot fucking on.
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