Here's the UN report:
Sorry. Israel's galaxy of crimes does not automatically excuse Hamas for their own human rights violations.
this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2025
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Israeli Crimes
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All Israeli crimes, past and present. The Israeli genocide of Gaza has a historical context behind it.
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Where's the evidence?
None of the following is evidence:
The mission team reviewed incidents of alleged sexual violence related to hostages in Gaza. Based on the first-hand accounts of released hostages, the mission team received clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment occurred against some women and children during their time in captivity and has reasonable grounds to believe that this violence may be ongoing.
However, at Shura Base, to which most of the bodies were taken for purposes of identification, there were five forensic pathologists at work. In that capacity, they also examined bodies that arrived completely or partially naked in order to examine the possibility of rape. According to a source knowledgeable about the details, there were no signs on any of those bodies attesting to sexual relations having taken place or of mutilation of genitalia.
In the course of their work, which included photographing faces only and covering the victims ahead of their evacuation, more than 200 bodies were documented. These teams did not document a single case of sexual assault or cases of genital mutilation. They did see women whose throats had been cut and men on whom "confirmation of kill" had been carried out at close range.
Beyond this, from inquiries put to three bodies in the defense establishment by Haaretz, it emerges that the intelligence material collected by the police and the intelligence bodies, including footage from terrorists' body cameras, does not contain visual documentation of any acts of rape themselves. Overall, the police and the State Prosecutor's Office refuse to make public details of their investigation, which, they say, is in progress. The many obstacles in its path were present from the outset.
Meanwhile we have plenty of evidence of Palestinians being raped, including a video, and Israeli politicians and religious leaders arguing that it is okay to rape Palestinian prisoners.
https://forward.com/fast-forward/344783/israel-army-rabbi-once-justified-rape-of-non-jewish-women/
Edit: I wonder if due to federation issues my edit citing Haaretz isn't showing..?
- At the Nova music festival and its surroundings, there are reasonable grounds to believe that multiple incidents of sexual violence took place with victims being subjected to rape and/or gang rape and then killed or killed while being raped. Credible sources described finding murdered individuals, mostly women, whose bodies were naked from their waist down – and some totally naked – tied with their hands behind their backs, many of whom were shot in the head. On Road 232, credible information based on witness accounts describe an incident of the rape of two women by armed elements. Other reported instances of rape could not be verified in the time allotted. The mission team also found a pattern of bound naked or partially naked bodies from the waist down, in some cases tied to structures including trees and poles, along Road 232. In kibbutz Re’im, the mission team further verified an incident of the rape of a woman outside of a bomb shelter and heard of other allegations of rape that could not yet be verified.
- The mission team conducted a visit to kibbutz Be’eri and was able to determine that at least two allegations of sexual violence widely repeated in the media, were unfounded due to either new superseding information or inconsistency in the facts gathered. These included a highly publicized allegation of a pregnant woman whose womb had reportedly been ripped open before being killed, with her fetus stabbed while still inside her. Other allegations, including of objects intentionally inserted into female genital organs, could not be verified by the mission team due in part to limited and low-quality imagery.
- In kibbutz Kfar Aza, while reports of conflict-related sexual violence, including at least one instance of rape, could not be verified, available circumstantial evidence may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence. In this kibbutz, similarly to other locations, female victims were found fully or partially naked to the waist down with their hands tied behind their backs and shot.
You're welcome to take that all as credible, or not. They talk about not wanting to expose particular alleged victims they interviewed to media scrutiny, for obvious reasons, and also about some alleged victims or actions that they found not to be credible when they investigated further.
Meanwhile we have plenty of evidence of Palestinians being raped, including a video, and Israeli politicians arguing that it is okay to rape Palestinian prisoners.
Absolutely true. The two don't cancel each other out. Like I said, Israel's much greater galaxy of crimes doesn't mean that Hamas is automatically innocent of everything.
Hearsay isn't evidence though and nothing has been substantiated. Hamas militants weren't the only ones in the jailbreak, there were other militants and groups and likely there were some Israeli plants too.
Hearsay is a problem because you can't examine the actual source of the claim. A professional team interviewing the witnesses directly, and then trying to verify the stories, and then writing down their findings, is not hearsay.
The report talks about non-Hamas civilians being part of the attack, and say that there is no way to know which individual it was that committed any particular act of sexual assault. Maybe that means that I shouldn't say "Hamas" is responsible for the violence. To me, that doesn't suddenly make the indications of sexual assault by the people who executed the attack suddenly evaporate.
"Israeli plants," to me, is fantasy. The Israeli government clearly allowed the attack to happen to further their own goals in Palestine, yes, and you can blame them for that (along with the backdrop of fifty years of oppression and genocide). What's your source for there being Israeli plants as part of the attack?
Israel has gangs and agents in the Gaza Strip, it is not a secret. Plus professional teams can be lied to. I cited Haaretz reporting that nothing was ever substantiated, and no physical evidence of sexual assault found on any of the bodies.
Anyways arguing this is pointless. All we know for certain that Hamas didn't commit any sexual violence and doesn't have a policy of committing sexual violence. Whether any other Palestinian group might have and whether that group is an Israeli plant can be debated forever.
My main concern is Hamas which is the elected government of Palestine. Proof of their innocence from this claim, is in how the prisoners were treated all this time, versus how Israel treated Palestinian prisoners with actually documented cases of rape, and rape as a policy promoted from the religious and political establishments, and publicly defended in Israeli media.
I'm not trying to debate it with you, no, so I'll leave it alone. I think I've said what I wanted to say at this point.
According to your argument it cannot be Hamas because there were other militants and Israeli plants, so it has to be one of them. So even if there are proven rapes, you first, according to you, you have to show the involved were part of Hamas and not a plant or other militants.
It sounds like a slippery slope because for the rape victim, the burden of proof is now placed on their shoulders. For most people if Hamas unleashed chaos on the 7th of October, and even Israeli plants used the chaos to rape everyone in their way, from the victims point of view, Hamas released the chaos and they were raped because of that. If Hamas feels like it is totally innocent of all rapes, they should identify all the rapists since then and prove they were other militants or Israeli plants. But that burden should not fall on the victims of the offence.
Same goes for the other side, if you laid siege to an area and the innocent got hurt, the burden should not fall on the victims to prove it wasn't Israeli forces, but on the instigating party.
Did you purposefully ignore that no one found any evidence of it? I cited Haaretz, Haaretz is not Palestinian and doesn't speak for Hamas. It is an Israeli newspaper and one of the fairer in their coverage despite the inherent bias. On the other end we have plenty of evidence of Israelis raping Palestinians, bragging about it and publicly defending it.
I think the issue for most in the West they are still stuck in the mindset of Hamas being evil and are willing to believe any accusation despite how flimsy and unsubstantiated it is.
Not all of us here on Lemmy is West, infact my country is probably going to pay the price with US sanctions for taking Israel to the ICC. So please do not make assumptions where an audience is from on a globally available social network.
But as South African, where our previous President raped someone, we saw all the narratives to dispelling the victim.
I never said Hamas raped anyone, even if there is evidence it will never convince everyone and visa versa even if ther is no rapes even you must know that not everyone will believe it, I was just commenting on your argument that there were other militants and Israeli and basically insinuating that if there were rapes you first have to prove it wasn't one of these parties. I feel such an argument is already defensive if you are so certain there wasn't any rapes from Hamas's side, which I am still saying I have not accused Hamas of committing, I am not a witness nor am I deeply involved to be the arbitrator.
Take some time and read this, there is a chance my last comment and edit wasn't showing on some instances due to federation issues:
choice quotes from the article:
However, at Shura Base, to which most of the bodies were taken for purposes of identification, there were five forensic pathologists at work. In that capacity, they also examined bodies that arrived completely or partially naked in order to examine the possibility of rape. According to a source knowledgeable about the details, there were no signs on any of those bodies attesting to sexual relations having taken place or of mutilation of genitalia.
In the course of their work, which included photographing faces only and covering the victims ahead of their evacuation, more than 200 bodies were documented. These teams did not document a single case of sexual assault or cases of genital mutilation. They did see women whose throats had been cut and men on whom "confirmation of kill" had been carried out at close range.
Beyond this, from inquiries put to three bodies in the defense establishment by Haaretz, it emerges that the intelligence material collected by the police and the intelligence bodies, including footage from terrorists' body cameras, does not contain visual documentation of any acts of rape themselves. Overall, the police and the State Prosecutor's Office refuse to make public details of their investigation, which, they say, is in progress. The many obstacles in its path were present from the outset.
[emphasis mine]