Asklemmy

No, because a cow has to be impregnated and their baby is taken away (and either killed (male) or is also going to be a milk cow (female)) just for you having some pleasure.

No to cheese made from bovine mammary secretions, because I try not to participate in animal exploitation anymore. Yes to plant based cheese, because it's delicious.

I really wish there was some ethical way of farming dairy cows, but have come to the conclusion that it just isn't with current methods and knowledge. I have some land and love cows so considered getting one or two for hobby-farming and just so I could have my own "cruelty free" dairy. Here are some things to consider about dairy farming:

• Only female cows produce milk.
• Female cows only produce milk for a brief period of time after giving birth.
• Every single cow requires at least one acre of grazing.
• You only need one bull on a dairy farm to provide sperm.
• Baby calves want to be near their mothers and will drink their milk.

The only way to fit these pieces together in any economical way is to: (a) forcefully impregnate cows as often as possible, (b) limit the amount of time calves can be with their mothers so they don't drink all the milk, and (c) slaughter male calves for veal. This is cruel no matter how you slice it. If you are born a cow you are taken away from your mother and given food you don't like and isn't as good for you as the milk that was produced specifically for you. If you are unlucky enough to be a female cow you will spend the next several years of your life being forcefully impregnated and having your own children taken away from you every year. If you are a male cow you'll only know life on earth for a short while before being put out of your misery. In the end, regardless of gender or age, you'll be sent into a long line of other confused and panicked cows to be slaughtered for your meat and organs at a factory staffed by strangers in scary masks you've never seen before with the smell of death and terror all around you. There is no such thing as ethical dairy and any company proclaiming otherwise is not being honest with you or themselves.

Edit: I should say that there are better ways of doing most of the steps in dairy farming that aren't as cruel. But unless consumers are okay paying something along the lines of $20 for a gallon of milk, capitalism will never permit those practices to actually happen.

Also wanted to say that I'm not necessarily against animal products. I have chickens. They are as happy as can be and give us delicious eggs every day. I feed them well and treat them like family and they don't mind me taking their eggs. I really don't see an issue with this exchange because there is no cruelty and both parties benefit. There are numerous examples of this with animals and animal products. However, I believe that dairy is one of those cases where there isn't really an ethical solution. Even if you take the unnecessary cruelty out of the process, you are still left with at least a little cruelty. Where do you draw the line?

Loved cheese but not having it any more. Not my milk not my cheese. My pleasure can’t come at the expense of another sentient, innocent being, especially not if that involves forced impregnation, being caged up, and having your children be taken almost right away who then often end up being killed because there’s no use.

Cheese for sure. Goat, Sheep, Cow, so many amazing varieties. All utilizing amazing advances in animal husbandry the human race has honed and improved upon for centuries across almost all cultures and all parts of the world.

I don't need cheese, I have nooch!