this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2024
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Interesting video specifically on the disappointing state of public transport in India. Major takeaways for me:

  • Many Indian cities are investing in (expensive and flashy) metros, which are posting disappointing ridership numbers, but
  • Most Indian commuters are travelling distances short enough that biking or using rickshaws are quicker
  • India's metros are significantly more expensive for riders than other methods of transport
  • Bus fleets in Indian cities aren't growing, while their populations are expanding rapidly
  • Traffic engineers/policymakers suffering from carbrain (sound familiar?)

Interesting watch, I'd say, as a non-Indian who doesn't see much content about the world's most populous country posted much

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Did I hear that right? He took a tuk-tuk to go 200m? That's... walkable, surely? I'm sure I do that every day on my commute.

[–] kippinitreal 9 points 6 days ago (2 children)

The public sentiment is against walking because its unsafe. Most Indian towns/cities have no walking infrastructure, with no road discipline from vehicles, walking or biking is a death trap. Taking a rickshaw even 200m is worth the money because it keeps you alive. And no, this isn't hyperbole unfortunately.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I spend a fair bit of time in Nepal, so I have a good idea what it's like there. My point is, it should be walkable.

[–] kippinitreal 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Agreed. However as the article/video mentions, the public policy for making biking walking possible is severely lacking. I also think the traffic enforcement needs to be very strict. There's no point making sidewalks to then have motorbikes drive on it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You have sidewalks in India? In Kathmandu, you mostly walk in the street or the gutter that runs down the side.

[–] kippinitreal 3 points 6 days ago

They're building them in many tier 2 cities in India now. But its very patchy. You'll have good sidewalks for 100m, then nothing for 200m. So pedestrians don't use them since they can't be asked to keep getting up & down all the time, dodge hawkers & avoid open manholes/drainage.

[–] Lost_My_Mind 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Whats the threat? People? Animals? Poisonous insects?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago

Cars. Probably.

[–] kippinitreal 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

India is already a country where many people use bikes; it's a pity that the government doesn't want to encourage that avenue and make it safer for cycling to be normal and voluntary, rather than a just a cheaper mode of transport.

[–] JubilantJaguar 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

This is classic advice from an enlightened Westerner and I do agree in theory. Unfortunately there is no example of a cycling-first poor country turning directly into a cycling-first rich country.

In my experience having seen the urban dystopia of many of these places, every country feels the need to pass through the materialist car-owning stage of economic development before it can move on to the post-materialist stage of development where people are more concerned about things like the environment and wellbeing. It really is something to do with the novelty of material wealth, I think. People want the small car, the status symbol of material success is literally more important than anything else. Monster traffic jams are worth it, and they can sort-of be fixed, for a while anyway, by new monster roads.

India is at this stage right now. Alongside a few metros here and there, India is also building exactly the kind of monstrous urban freeways that are now being pulled down in Europe and the USA. It seems every country needs to learn the same hard lesson by itself.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Given the dominance of two-wheelers, with some clever marketing wouldn't it possible to encourage more e-bikes and hybrids? Electric scooters could be subsidized, Maruti can market, etc.

People are very susceptible to popular things as you say, and I do agree it would need to happen gradually.

[–] JubilantJaguar 2 points 6 days ago

Hybrids: irrelevant and complex red herring that's already on the way out. E-bikes: sure. But electric scooters will be the real salvation IMO. It's a drop-in replacement which is actually cheaper and simpler. Path already blazed by China. The end of the abominable combustion scooter is now just a matter of time.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The thing about Indian metros is that nearly half of them are built on very low distances. For example, the Agra Metro(home to the Taj Mahal) currently has a operational distance of 6 km only. Jaipur, another tourist site has ~12 km only.

Cities like Bombay/Mumbai are developing it as an alternative (and much needed there because the suburban trains are creaking there and they are dangerous) but they are yet to reach a sustainable limit. I think Delhi has sorted it. They have covered the whole length and breadth of the city and have nearly 400 km of network length. The ridership numbers are decent there too.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago (2 children)

6 KM? I can walk that in less than an hour. Why even have a metro then?

[–] JubilantJaguar 5 points 6 days ago

Walking 6 km in an Indian city will be a nightmarish ordeal that you will regret trying. I have tried it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago

Usually, for political purposes the first phase of a metro is hastily inaugurated whilst subsequent phases often linger long. Agra does have a road map for longer metro lines. How long, it will take, especially with changing state and central governments is anybody's guess. Unlike China, things are slower in India both for political and logistical reasons(like land acquisition sometimes becomes a stumbling factor in associated railway projects).

[–] JubilantJaguar 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

In a big city a metro is always better than no metro, so congratulations to those Indian cities that have (finally) got their act together on this front.

Last year I spent some time in Pune, a city of 7 million which has been labeled India's "most livable", presumably partly on the basis of its new metro. Well. The metro had a single line and was absolutely not at capacity, despite a pretty low train frequency. Perhaps because of the fares, maybe also the full airport-style security at every station. This was not something you can easily hop on and off, as city public transport should really always be.

I visited a number of Indians cities and it was no better anywhere else. Compared with the situation in China, let alone places like Japan and Taiwan, it's night and day. The quality of life in India is really being held back by the dreadful state of urban infrastructure in general and public transport in particular. There's been progress but India must do better.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

I experienced the airport-style security at the Delhi metro as well. It was absolutely insane, think I waited about 20 minutes just to get into the station. That is not at all practical for most commuters.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago

Black busses. In India. For real folks? Paint them white and save $ on AC costs...