I wish Proxmox switched to Incus.
this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2024
79 points (97.6% liked)
Linux
48624 readers
1579 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Proxmox will not switch to Incus, they like their epic pile of hacks. However you can switch to Debian + Incus and avoid that garbage all together.
I don't understand what you mean by "epic pile of hacks". Proxmox is just a Linux distribution, with a particular focus. All the software is the usual stuff with integration scripts and binaries and a webby front end. They start off with stock Debian and work up from there which is the way many distros work.
I'm not sure what Proxmox switching to Incus would really mean. They are both Linux distributions that focus on providing a VM and container wrangling system.
I happen to be porting rather a lot of VMware to Proxmox. My little company has a lot of VMware customers and I am rather busy moving them over. I picked Proxmox (Hyper-V? No thanks) about 18 months ago when the Broadcom thing came about and did my own home system first and then rather a lot of testing. I then sold the idea to the rest of my company and we made some plans and are now carrying those plan out.
Now, if Proxmox becomes toxic, I still have projects like Incus to fall back on. I ... WE ... have choice, and that is important. You can be sure that if Proxmox drops the ball, Veeam will suddenly support Incus or whatever the world decides is the next best thing in Linux VMs and container land.
I was a VMware consultant for 25 odd years. No longer (well I am still but only under mild protest!) I also have to wrangle a few Hyper-V clusters too. All of these bloody monolithic monstrosities work at the whim of massive corporations who really don't have your best interests at heart. They bleed you dry.
I like to have choice. Proxmox and Incus are both examples of choice. You start off with "I'd like to run VMs and containers on my hardware with software that is "open" and you have more than one option. You do not start off with: "I'd like a HyperV or VMware", nail your colours to the mast and live in a rather rubbish monoculture.
Sorry, I seem to have gone on a bit 8)
Well... If you’re running a modern version of Proxmox then you’re already running LXC containers so why not move to Incus that is made by the same people?
Proxmox (...) They start off with stock Debian and work up from there which is the way many distros work.
Proxmox has been using Ubuntu's kernel for a while now.
Now, if Proxmox becomes toxic
Proxmox is already toxic, it requires a payed license for the stable version and updates. Furthermore the Proxmox guys have been found to withhold important security updates from non-stable (not paying) users for weeks.
My little company has a lot of VMware customers and I am rather busy moving them over. I picked Proxmox (Hyper-V? No thanks) about 18 months ago when the Broadcom thing came about and did my own home system first and then rather a lot of testing.
If you're expecting the same type of reliably you've from VMware on Proxmox you're going to have a very hard time soon. I hope not, but I also know how Proxmox works.
I run Promox since 2009 and until very recently, professionally, in datacenters, multiple clusters around 10-15 nodes each which means that I’ve been around for all wins and fails of Proxmox. I saw the raise and fall of OpenVZ, the subsequent and painful move to LXC and the SLES/RHEL compatibility issues.
While Proxmox works most of the time and their payed support is decent I would never recommend it to anyone since Incus became a thing. The Promox PVE kernel has a lot of quirks, for starters it is build upon Ubuntu’s kernel – that is already a dumpster fire of hacks waiting for someone upstream to implement things properly so they can backport them and ditch their own implementations – and then it is a typically older version so mangled and twisted by the extra features garbage added on top.
I got burned countless times by Proxmox’s kernel. Broken drivers, waiting months for fixes already available upstream or so they would fix their own bugs. As practice examples, at some point OpenVPN was broken under Proxmox’s kernel, the Realtek networking has probably been broken for more time than working. ZFS support was introduced only to bring kernel panics. Upgrading Proxmox is always a shot in the dark and half of the time you get a half broken system that is able to boot and pass a few tests but that will randomly fail a few days later.
Proxmox’s startup is slow, slower than any other solution – it even includes management daemons that are there just there to ensure that other daemons are running. Most of the built-in daemons are so poorly written and tied together that they don’t even start with the system properly on the first try.
Why keep dragging all of the Proxmox overhead and potencial issues, if you can run a clean shop with Incus, actually made by the same people who make LXC?
Oh yeah me too! Incus is amazing
K3s ready?
I want to switch to Incus so bad but I'm deep into proxmox. Anyone have recommendations of how best to migrate?
I'm in the same boat, I tried Incus or rather LXD a couple months back and gave up after a little while due to pressing business needing the Proxmox machine up again.
I have two main requirements which I have for my server:
-
It must support Home Assistant OS as a VM and a USB Dongle (Zwave) I found this as a possible solution for LXD systems: https://seanblanchfield.com/2023/05/home-assistant-os-in-lxd
-
It must support NFS exports so I can share my storage and data drives. I'm pretty sure since it's on Debian, I can install Cockpit and it's sharing plugin for this.
I think the thing which scared me off at the time too was the lack of GUI which I think I may have missed. This may be a solution: https://blog.simos.info/how-to-install-and-setup-the-incus-web-ui/
I was just thinking about Incus the other day so this might be a good time to look into it more!
You tried incus on a prod machine?
I did, but it's a home machine, personal use. So, it didn't matter for me, but for family...that was another story! :) I just pulled the main boot drive, put a different one and installed it and went through the process. Then went back to the Proxmox drive after.
Haha, alright then.
I thought you hijacked a VM Host at work to play with ;)