this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2024
530 points (99.4% liked)

Technology

59776 readers
4692 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] phoneymouse 199 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

The US Govt 5 years ago: e2e encryption is for terrorists. The govt should have backdoors.

The US Govt now: Oh fuck, our back door got breached, everyone quick use e2e encryption asap!

[–] Agent641 60 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

The Australian government tried to straight up ban encryption some years ago.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 15 hours ago (4 children)

I laughed so much at that. Encryption is literally just long complicated numbers combined with other long complicated numbers using mathematical formulae. You can't ban maths.

If I remember correctly, there's also a law in Australia where they can force tech companies to introduce backdoors in their systems and encryption algorithms, and the company must not tell anyone about it. AFAIK they haven't tried to actually use that power yet, but it made the (already relatively stagnant) tech market in Australia even worse. Working in tech is the main reason I left Australia for the USA - there's just so many more opportunities and significantly higher paying jobs for software developers in Silicon Valley.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago

You can try, and in the US, we have export restrictions on cryptography (ITAR restrictions), so certain products cannot be exported. But you can print out the algorithm and carry it on a plane though, so I'm not sure what the point is...

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] theherk 22 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Different parts of the government. Both existed then and now. There has for a long time been a substantial portion of the government, especially defense and intelligence, that rely on encrypted comms and storage.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

FBI has definitely always been anti-encryption

[–] [email protected] 17 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

I have never understood why electronic communications are not protected as physical mail

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago

Because the USA has been a broken fascist husk ever since the red scare and has been in slow decline ever since.

[–] Astronauticaldb 2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Lobbying as well as developmental issues I would assume. I'm no real developer just yet but I'd imagine creating robust security protocols is time-consuming and thinking of every possible vulnerability is not entirely worth it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

No, security is pretty easy and has been for decades. PGP has been a thing since 1991, and other encryption schemes were a thing long before. ProtonMail uses PGP and SMTP, the latter of which predates PGP by about a decade (though modern SMPT with extensions wasn't a thing until 1995).

So at least for email, there's little technical reason why we couldn't all use top of the line security. It's slightly more annoying because you need to trade keys, but email services could totally make it pretty easy (e.g. send the PGP key with the first email, and the email service sends it with an encrypted reply and stores them for later use).

The reason we don't is because servers wouldn't be able to read our email. The legitimate use case here is searching (Tuta solves this by searching on the client, ProtonMail stores unencrypted subject lines), and 20 years ago, that would've been a hardship with people moving to web services. Today, phones can store emails, so it's not an issue anymore, so it probably comes down to being able to sell your data.

Many to many encryption is more complicated (e.g. Lemmy or Discord), so I understand why chat took a while to be end to end encrypted (Matrix can do this, for example), but there are plenty of FOSS examples today, and pretty much every device has encryption acceleration in the CPU, so there's no technical reason why it's impractical today.

The reason it's not uniquitous today is because data is really valuable, both to police and advertisers.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] PagingDoctorLove 5 points 9 hours ago (5 children)

Question for more tech savvy people: should I be worried about wiping old data, and if so for which apps? Just messaging apps, or also email and social media? Or can I just use the encrypted apps moving forward?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

That depends on the privacy protections where you live and the policies of each service:

  • most places in the US - they already have your data and aren't obligated to delete it
  • outside the EU - probably the same as the US
  • the EU or select states (e.g. CA) - you have some protections and a legal obligation to honor delete requests

For the first two, I wouldn't bother. I personally poisoned my data with Reddit before leaving, because I've heard of then reversing deletions. For the third, deleting may make sense.

But in general, I'd keep your other accounts open until you fully transition to the new one.

Below is information when considering a replacement service.

Anything where data is stored on a server you don't directly control can be leaked or subpoenad from the org that owns that server. Any unencrypted communication can be intercepted, and any regular encryption (HTTPS) can be logged by that server (e.g. under court order without notifying the customer).

Even "secure" services can be ordered to keep logs. Here's an example from Proton mai, and here's one involving Tutanota.

So it depends on your threat model, or in other words, who you're trying to keep away from your data. Just think about how screwed you might be if:

  • a hacker dumps the servers data
  • a police agency secretly orders recording of data and metadata
  • someone steals your device
  • the police confiscate your device

The answers to the above should help you decide which to type of service you'd feel comfortable with, and what tradeoffs you're willing to make.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 hours ago

just wanted to add that deleting an app will not result in deletion of your data stored in the cloud (e.g. your emails)

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] obinice 58 points 19 hours ago (3 children)

Real encrypted apps, ...or just the ones their own government can use to spy on them?

[–] Agent641 22 points 17 hours ago

In the voice of Nelson Muntz: "Nobody spies on our citizens but us!"

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 100 points 21 hours ago (54 children)

It's probably also good practice to assume that not all encrypted apps are created equal, too. Google's RCS messaging, for example, says "end-to-end encrypted", which sounds like it would be a direct and equal competitor to something like Signal. But Google regularly makes money off of your personal data. It does not behoove a company like Google to protect your data.

Start assuming every corporation is evil. At worst you lose some time getting educated on options.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago

RCS is an industry standard, not a Google thing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 hours ago

If its not Open Source and Audited yearly, its compromised. Your best option for secure comms is Signal and Matrix.

load more comments (52 replies)
[–] [email protected] 166 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Oh gee, forcing companies to leave backdoors for the government might compromise security, everyone. Who'd have thunk it? 🤦

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›