this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023

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Tesla was so swamped with complaints about driving ranges that it created a secret team to cancel owners' service appointments, source says (www.businessinsider.com)

submitted 1 year ago by L4s to c/technology

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Tesla was so swamped with complaints about driving ranges that it created a secret team to cancel owners' service appointments, source says::To suppress the volume of complaints the automaker created a secret "Diversion Team" in Las Vegas to cancel appointments, Reuters reported.

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[–] fubo 273 points 1 year ago (48 children)

Instead of displaying the true driving range, the software provided a "rosy" projection of how far cars could drive before needing to be recharged, the report said. The distance EVs can travel before needing to be recharged is one of the main disadvantages the cars face in comparison with gas vehicles. The order to inflate the driving range displayed on the cars was given by Tesla's CEO Elon Musk around 10 years ago, according to Reuters.

If you know the true answer, but you give your customer a false answer to make your product look better than it is, there's a word for that. It's "fraud".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Which reminds me of Apple and MS and Google and who not too...

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Huh, I have a Niro EV and it tries pretty hard to extrapolate the range based on the current conditions, so for example if it's colder outside than the range is less (because it needs to keep the batteries warm), and if you switch on air conditioning or the heater then it immediately lowers the range to account for the extra drain. Occasionally it gets the range prediction wrong, but it really does seem to try to do its best. I just assumed that all EVs work this way.

[–] dojan 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Niro is from Nissan though. Most reputable manufacturers do produce pretty solid EVs. Tesla is a scam.

[–] LoQey 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Kia makes the Niro, not Nissan.

[–] dojan 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah right. Kia is also more reputable though.

Tesla doesn't really offer anything to the EV market that other more established makers don't. Except for poor build quality, panel gaps, and a memelord of a CEO.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In fairness, I am also jealous of their Supercharger network, having had some bad experiences on the very few occasions when I've needed a DC fast charge and it seemed like nothing around was working. I hope that it gets upgraded to support CCS in at least some locations so I can start being able to use them.

[–] dojan 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The superchargers are also stupid, but more so in a regulatory sense. If EVs are to be viable they ought have standardised connectors and methods of charging. Having a private company own that is beyond idiotic.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It is perfectly fine as long as they release the standard and make it unencumbered by licensing, which Tesla has done for NACS. Many standards originally came from companies.

[–] fluckx 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Driving 120km/h on the highway, upwind, uphill, airco usage all decrease your battery more than driving in ideal conditions.

The WLTP is a scam number because ( the way I see it ) it's how far your car can drive on a perfectly straight piece of road with a slight breeze from behind in the perfect temperature. Conditions which are never met in real life.

In my old diesel car the usage between 120 and 90 km/h on a highway was neglectable. It's the difference between 5.5/100km and 5.7l/100km.

Driving 90km/h on a highway vs 120 will probably easily make 100km range difference in a Tesla...

There's a button on the Tesla where you fan see the estimated range based on your current power usage as well as what you're losing power too ( acceleration/wind/uphill/... ).

I'm not defending it. It's just not as straightforward because it depends on more than your petrol car.

Tesla model 3 long-range has a WLTP of ~600km. I think the furthest I'd give it is 450-500 in summer and ~ 400-450 in winter ( on a 100% charge). Normally you'd only charge it to 90% to increase battery lifetime unless you're going on long trips.

Not to mention the power your car loses just standing on your porch...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a trade-off though. My Volvo XC90 does great on the highway, but gets its range completely destroyed by stop-start traffic in the city.

Whereas my Tesla Model Y's range seems to actually increase when stuck in traffic or even just driving in the city.

[–] allotrope 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah... EVs are totally built for stop-and-go traffic or city driving. For those uninitiated, everytime you slow down with a ICE car, all that kinetic energy is just being turned into heat on your break pads. Meanwhile for an EV car, that energy is then converted back into electricity to charge the battery - this is the same reason why Hybrids have so much better fuel economy. Adding to that, an ICE engine is only ~30% efficient in converting the energy in gasoline to energy for moving the car (the rest being turned into heat, vibrations, noise) whereas an EV is about ~70-80% efficient. You might not go as far while highway driving an EV, but it took a lot less chemical energy to take you there, meter for meter.

[–] Aceticon 2 points 1 year ago

Also the efficiency and torque curve of an electric motor is pretty much flat at all speeds, whilst ICE motors are less efficient at both lower RPM (it's not even speed, it's rotations per minute) and higher RPM and there's a sweet spot somewhere in the middle, whose precise position depends on the motor technology (higher for gas, lower for diesel, for example).

The torque also depends on RPM, which is actually why you have gearboxes and those values are in RPM not speed (as the gearbox alters the RPM to speed ratio, exactly to make up for lower torque at higher RPM).

Along with regenerative breaking as you mentioned, this flatter efficiency curve makes EVs much more efficient in stop-and-go traffic than ICEs whose ideal conditions are to be cruising steadilly at around 2500 RPM (for gas, and it also depends on engine) in the highest gear (so at about 100km/h).

[–] MowFord 2 points 1 year ago

One thing to note is you didn't notice a range difference based on speed because you're dealing with larger numbers in terms all around, but you definitely had the same efficiency loss in percent when going faster

[–] PrincessLeiasCat 7 points 1 year ago

Won't someone think of the empty tunnel in Vegas? :(

[–] spicystraw 6 points 1 year ago

Sorry for party pooping the Tesla hate train, but the milage estimate when navigation is of is directly correlated to battery state of charge. Its basicly just SoC x factor. Its not dynamic, as in a Kia or BMW. The factor is calculated from officoal EPA range test. Should it be dynamic? Maybe, but you get a true estimate when you navigate to a destination anyway. This is probably done so they could market the car with certain range, same as many other manufacturers.

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