this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2024

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Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan clinches first Olympic medal amid outcry tied to gender misconceptions (apnews.com)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/world

29 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Boxer Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan clinched her first Olympic medal Sunday in front of a crowd that chanted her name at the Paris Games, one day after fellow boxer Imane Khelif of Algeria secured one as well following days of online abuse and intense scrutiny about their participation.

Lin defeated Svetlana Kamenova Staneva of Bulgaria in a women’s 57-kilogram quarterfinal, earning her second straight unanimous decision and advancing to the division’s semifinal round to ensure she will win at least a bronze medal.

Lin and Khelif have been at the center of a clash over gender identity and regulations in sports, as critics have brought up their disqualification from the world championships last year after the banned International Boxing Association claimed they failed unspecified eligibility tests for women’s competition.

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[–] [email protected] 98 points 5 months ago (2 children)

This has been and still is one of the most disgusting, misinformation-fraught witch hunts I've witnessed in a long while. It's a real mask off moment for a lot of people claiming to be feminists, who are now frothing at the mouth and misgendering cis women for not living up to their arbitrary standards of "feminine".

[–] triptrapper 32 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Well said. In addition to these stories demonizing trans people (or in this case, masc-looking cis people) they also fragilize women. We normally celebrate women in combat sports as feminist symbols, but suddenly we can't stomach these delicate little angels being beat up.

I don't know a ton about boxing, but in MMA fighters made similar comments about fighting Ronda Rousey, Cyborg, Joanna Jedrzeczyk, and Amanda Nunes. "I've never been hit that hard." "She completely overpowered me."

We already have a way of separating athletes based on their ability. It's called competition. Sometimes you're just outmatched.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago

In addition to these stories demonizing trans people (or in this case, masc-looking cis people)

This is 100% the point of the outrage. They are demonstrating that just the "potential" of being trans will result in vicious attacks, which signals to actual trans people to hide, even when they don't have to.

[–] iamtrashman1312 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

100% correct. One of the most frustrating things with talking women's sports, imo, is the same as talking about abortion: me personally? I'm not a woman. Never have been. Due in no small part to that I don't think I have any fuckin business deciding what's best for women, assigned at birth or otherwise.

I don't know a lot about boxing either. I'm pretty sure literally anyone competing in Women's Olympic Boxing could lay me the fuck out. I don't think what's in their trunks or what diagnoses any of them may have contribute to that outcome so much as "they're some of the best people in the world at punching other people"

[–] FlyingSquid 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I was thinking about something this morning... how many women are going to be turned off of sports by finding out that they have some sort of testing, be it genetic testing or genital examination vs. finding out that there's a chance they might compete against someone who isn't a "real" woman? Because I think the former. I think being forced to prove you're a woman is a far bigger way of discouraging girls and women from competing than the chance they might compete against someone who has some unfair male advantage based on averages.

[+] [email protected] -9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] FlyingSquid 15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

So not what was done in the case of Yu-Ting Khelif. Or at least not what they admitted to doing.

And no, you're not "either a real biological woman or you're not." It's nowhere near that simple:

[+] [email protected] -10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Again it's just a chromosome blood test. You can test for all that crap. Then you can make it publically known to fans and even potentially disqualify people from participating depending on the mutations because, again, a punch can kill someone. You think I didn't know about chromosome mutations before commenting?

[–] FlyingSquid 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Cool. Which category should the person whose "all that crap" is XX plus the SRY gene with a body that appears to be biologically male be in?

Since you know about chromosome mutations, perhaps you can tell me if they're a man or a woman.

[+] [email protected] -10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Give a fuck what they are. I'm betting money on fights so they should make it public who might have an advantage.

Now for my answer. So xx plus sry makes females have a male phenotype. That's what the sry gene does. It makes their bodies i.e muscles and physical traits and behaviors develope as if males would.

[–] FlyingSquid 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This doesn't sound so simple like you made it out to be. You said a chromosome test. Now you are saying that you need to test for the SRY gene as well. What else do you need to test for?

By the way, your continual discussion about how punching someone can kill them- no shit. People get killed in the boxing ring all the time. That's a risk when it comes to boxing. It's not like a woman can't be just as easily killed by another woman in the ring.

You're acting like these women are weak and fragile little flowers when any one of them likely could kick your ass and then have the energy to kick my ass and kick the ass of any other men posting in this thread, then run ten miles and not even feel winded.

By the way... do you think that maybe having to get medical testing to prove you're really a woman might discourage girls and women from being in competitive sports? Or does that not matter?

[+] [email protected] -9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yes it's simple testing. It's all a simple blood test. We should test for whatever gives these people an unfair advantage. Noone is entitled to punch someone into a coma in front of a camera for money lmao it's not a basic human right.

And speak for yourself. No woman is beating my ass then having enough energy to beat my friends ass too then going about their day like nothing happened. Your telling me I act like they're so weak and fragile you are acting like they are gods dude.

They do medical tests all the time in these sports. Even at 2 in the morning while you're asleep in your house they'll ask you for a urine sample. So no it doesn't matter what discourages who from participating if you don't want to give the blood samples then... Fk on off as is what happens when fighters refuse medical tests?

[–] FlyingSquid 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

This is what you originally said:

It’s just a chromosome test, just a blood test.

You also said:

So xx plus sry makes females have a male phenotype. That’s what the sry gene does. It makes their bodies i.e muscles and physical traits and behaviors develope as if males would.

Which would require more than a chromosome test. So make up your mind.

On to your current post...

We should test for whatever gives these people an unfair advantage.

Who are "these people" exactly? Is Brittney Griner one of "these people" too? Should she also be tested down to the genetic level to prove whether or not she is, as you put it, "a real biological woman or your not?"

And speak for yourself. No woman is beating my ass then having enough energy to beat my friends ass too then going about their day like nothing happened.

Okay, tough guy. You really know a lot about how weak and fragile women are, don't you?

[+] [email protected] -8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Dude. It's just a blood test. A simple blood sample and you can test genes and chromosomes. What I originally said isn't really wrong. And yes, give everyone these tests it's fair.

And I should add. No man is doing that crap to me either. Lmao

[–] FlyingSquid 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Okay, Superman. No man can beat you in a fight and you get to decide who is a weak, fragile woman and a strong, manly man.

But the important thing is this is about your money. And if you can't bet on women's Olympics boxing, what's left to bet on? Are there even other sports?

[+] [email protected] -6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The scientific tests will decide it. You got this backwards. You are the one trying to get to decide who is and and who isn't who based on... Intuition? Looks? Gut feeling? I merely suggested scientific tests based on our scientific reality. And it's such a huge problem. Meanwhile we can make literal rocks think using science.

And yes I've been beaten once or twice if it's a concern of yours but I wouldn't say they walked away pain free or anything like it.

This is about much much more than me and my money. Sure it worries me but there are other implications I'm sure.

[–] FlyingSquid 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What other implications are you sure about? Because so far the only one you've implied is that someone could die in the ring, which happens anyway. It doesn't even need to be because of a hard punch. It could just be contact in a place that already had damage that the boxer wasn't even aware of.

So let's hear the other implications.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

See that's one implication. Just because people die it means we shouldn't do things to prevent this? That's the second time you've said people die all the time anyways. It's Like who cares people die all time why do anything to prevent needless death ???? Why even have weight classes?

How can someone think like that but then be so adent about a (imo non-existent) genocide happening in Israel? Wouldn't you just kinda go bleh they die anyways who cares?

I'm going to be selling cars advertising them as fully self driving. They don't actually nearly drive themselves but who cares, people die from cars everyday.

[–] FlyingSquid 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How many women have men killed in the ring? Exactly how many? Because I'm betting it's zero. Meaning you have nothing to base that claim on.

So I'm still waiting to hear the implications.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sounds like you aren't satisfied until they die and beg for mercy. It can easily happen too.

[–] FlyingSquid 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

So then zero, meaning you have nothing to base this claim on.

In which case, what are the implications?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Snowflake is really living up to their name here.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 5 months ago

what are the implications?

My last 2 comments. 😉😉

We've gone from doing medical blood tests in woman boxing to who cares they die anyways let them die and beg for it first. And you still ask what I'm talking about lmao.

[–] Phegan 21 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The center of a clash manufactured by ghouls.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

Ghouls that will turn around and tell you "life isn't fair" when you talk about income equality, yet somehow fairness in relatively pointless sports competitions is such a pressing issue.

[–] FlyingSquid 19 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

If you want me to believe either Lin or Khelif are not women, show me the evidence.

"I know a woman when I see one" isn't evidence and neither is "the Russian judge says otherwise."

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

She's not white though, so we better question her gender.

[–] Cyberjin 1 points 5 months ago

Made me some good money 😁