Of all the problems with The Last Jedi, Luke becoming a "defeated" old man seemed like the least of that movies' problems. That was the one plot point I was willing to accept. Dude had a moment of weakness and got filled with self-doubt, it happens. The rest of the movie was trash, but that part was whatever, not a huge suspension of disbelief.
this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2024
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I still don't like the Last Jedi, but thank you for posting
I have never found browbeating people into enjoying something that they don't to be a successful strategy.
Discussions about why you enjoy something are more successful and simply more positive than trying to 'gotcha' people by clawing at them for enjoying/not enjoying something.
There is nothing wrong, and nothing that makes someone a lesser or greater fan about liking or disliking certain parts of a franchise.
I do not like discussions made wholly for the purpose of fan infighting.
But ANH came out 20 years before the prequels, and therefore it's the prequels that are inconsistent with the established character?
This post is satirical.
Whoosh
I know the post is a joke, but the main difference is that Luke was on the winning side at the end of ep 6, redeeming his father and avenging old Ben, while OB1 saw his entire world, the Republic and the Jedi, being destroyed at the end of ep 3. He became a target and "traitor", so hiding was the only sane choice.
Also, while OB1 readied himself to fight Anakin, it was the latter that jumped to strike first. Luke tried to kill Ben while the kid was asleep.
As others said, Luke retiring or wanting to be left alone because he fucked up big time isn't a problem per se. The way his reasoning is treated, especially for trying to kill Ben Solo, is what left a LOT to be desired. "Oh, I had recurring nightmares that he'd fall to the dark side". Well, did you confide that with anyone? It's not like Yoda, Anakin or Obi-Wan's force ghosts would rat him out. - My memory is hazy, but I don't remember him saying, or the movie showing, what he tried besides cold blooded murder to avoid such a fate.
It sounds like you only watched the first half of the movie. Kylo Ren lies to Rey and says Luke tried to kill him, but then she talks to Luke and he explains it was all a misunderstanding. He never tried to kill Ben. He just panicked and drew his weapon for a split-second because he had a PTSD war flashback. Y'know, cause he's a veteran. Ben woke up bleary-eyed in the middle of the night with a weapon over him and assumed the worst. We see Ben's memory, but it's all distorted from the actual truth. The reason everyone complains it doesn't make sense is cause, well, yeah it doesn't. It's not true. It didn't actually happen, it's just Kylo Ren telling lies. We later see Luke's memory and it's way more reasonable and actually makes sense.
I think what's sore the most is you just feel back to square one again after watching all nine star wars movies.
obiwan and Luke tried to kill people close to them and ran from themselves. Never crossed my mind on the parallels.
In obi-wan case, I felt he was in tatooine to watch over Luke. Not sure of that is right. Haven't seen the movie In decades. Also vador hates sand. While Luke was just retired.
My problem with the movies is it would have been nice if they explained why Luke didn't kill smoke or w/e sooner or why Ben was so keen on his grandpa who turned good at the end.
Luke didn't kill Snoke because he didn't feel that he had the right. All that stuff he did in the OT, he did it in the name of the Jedi. From the beginning, Obi-Wan hyped him up on tales of his father the Jedi war hero, and told Luke to carry on that legacy. Once he learned that his father was a sith, he had his memories of Obi-Wan and Yoda to guide him. He was trying to honour the memory of the Jedi.
When Luke failed with Ben Solo and destroyed his Jedi academy, he internalised the failure so badly that he decided the Jedi are a bad idea entirely. Look at history, the Jedi created Darth Vader and plunged the galaxy into fascism, and then along comes Luke who thinks he's soooooo much better and goes and makes exactly the same mistakes and creates Kylo Ren and plunges the galaxy into fascism again! He blamed himself for thinking the Jedi could ever be a lasting positive force. He went to Ahch-To to die. And yeah, he's in his head too much and he's ignoring all the good he himself did as a Jedi during the OT, but Luke isn't exactly known for being a rational or clear thinker at the best of times. He wanted to go die alone so that nobody would ever become a Jedi again, and nobody would repeat the failure that he repeated. He wanted the Resistance to defeat Snoke, not the Jedi, so that the galaxy could move on and find peace without the memory of the Jedi.
Not sure why he didn't didn't feel he couldn't snoke. They didn't explain that clear to me. When it comes to forces of chaos it's more what right do you have to let them live.
Because if Luke killed Snoke it would still just be force users killing force users, and Luke doesn't believe that ever really helped. He wants the Resistance to kill Snoke so people will forget about the Jedi.
Luke didn't need to personally kill Snoke, but helping the Republic he helped reinstate would make sense. He wasn't just a jedi or force user, he was also a great pilot, the backwater kid that blew up the first death star and one of the many pilots that helped defend the Hoth base against the Imperial assault.
Maybe the whole jedi and force thing went way too much over his head, to the point where everything else stopped being important to him. I don't remember how exactly it was depicted in TLJ, but I don't recall him saying anything about the New Republic, whether or not he cares about it anymore or why.
Yeah that's exactly it. See, what Luke was really mad about was the legend of the Jedi. He was sick of being mythologised by the rest of the galaxy. Because the Republic mythologised the Jedi, and the Jedi became corrupt and created Darth Vader. And then Luke mythologised his Jedi war hero father, and he was wrong to do that. And then the galaxy mythologised him, and he failed.
When Rey came to Ahch-To to learn from Luke, she thought the Jedi controlled people and lifted rocks. She didn't understand the philosophy or the reality, all she had was a legend she didn't really understand. That's how people have been talking to Luke ever since he defeated the Empire, and he's sick of it. Everyone thinks Luke is a perfect Jedi Master, and he's ashamed of his failure and hates himself and wants everyone to stop hero worshipping him. He's sick of letting everyone down and not being the perfect hero they expect of him.
Luke's character development in the movie was learning to use the legend as a tool. He uses the fact that he's the unbeatable and mysterious Jedi master to mega tilt Kylo Ren and buy time for everyone else to escape. The only reason that shenanigan worked is that everyone thinks Luke Skywalker is larger than life.
Man all that went over my head when I saw the movie. Makes sense now that it's been laid out. Still I don't see normal people taking out vader or starkiller.
This shit is why I see people saying "Luke Skywalker would never make a mistake, he's a perfect Jedi Master and an unshakeable hero", and I laugh. Completely missing the point of the movie and Luke's entire arc in it. Those people are acting exactly like Rey does before she learns what being Luke Skywalker, the human being, is really like. The Last Jedi is a commentary on the kinds of people who think that way and how we should feel about how wrong they are.
Also, as far as anyone knew at the time, Luke Skywalker was a random ass farm boy when he blew up the death star. Being the son of Darth Vader had nothing to do with it, except for the fact that it gave him access to a good mentor. The point of Star Wars when George Lucas made it in 1977, is that anyone can be a hero. And that's also the other point of The Last Jedi. Luke doesn't think the hero has to be a Jedi. He doesn't think the hero should be a Jedi. At the end of the movie, we see a random ass stable boy use the force like it's nothing. Because back in 1977, anyone could use the force if they just believed in themself and tried. The Last Jedi is a rejection of the later ideas of force sensitivity and midichlorians and prophecies and chosen ones. That's why Rey's parents are revealed to be unimportant assholes. The movie is rejecting the idea that the hero needs to be born special. Which is the same way Luke feels for the entire movie, and his arc never changes that.
Lol "nooo my fav character is perfect!" My issue was we found the character in decline and didn't see any of it. I just didn't understand how he became like this. He went from perfect hero to jedi fan boy to jedi need to be forgotten all off camera. Like come on disney give us a mini series or something. The whole "rejecting the idea that the hero needs to be born special." Was totally missed by me. I didn't see EP9 (ppl told me not to) but I thought Rey was a Palpatine.
The sequel trilogy was made by two different people who had completely different visions of Star Wars and did not communicate. The first movie was total nostalgia bait and fun, with a little bit of thematic playing around with the politics of neo naziism. The second movie was a philosophical musing on the power and flaws of legends, capitalism, war, and ordinary people. The third movie undid every theme in the second movie so it could focus on nostalgia bait and fun, with nothing important to say except for a weird side plot about stepsibling incest.
The reason we don't see any of the inciting incidents for anything that's going on is that JJ Abrams wanted to copy George Lucas' trick of doing a story that starts in media res and not explaining previous events until several decades later. Because Abrams was nostalgic for the original Star Wars movies. That's it, that's the entire reason. Abrams didn't even bother writing down why Luke is in hiding from the war, he just wrote up until the point Rey reaches Ahch-To and put the pencil down. Then Rian Johnson had to figure out a compelling reason on his own without contradicting anything that had already been done, and he came up with the idea that Luke wants the Jedi to end. That's why the movies are the way they are.
And donβt get me started on Empire Strikes Back and Yoda
/s