this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2024
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We should be allowed to do it because "insert dictator here" did it isn't the great argument you think it is (lemmy.ml)
submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 36 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I’m as critical of the US as anyone but if I have to pick one to spy on me, I’ll pick the US.

Yes both are bad. Don’t start going “but America” on me please lol. This is not me saying the US isn’t violating our civil liberties regularly. But we do have more here than Chinese citizens do. Also, China has an adversarial stance to the US so there’s another layer to it. Same reason I object to Russia interfering with elections and also don’t like what our own domestic media operations do. Both are bad, but Russia is objectively worse.

But for real folks don’t download TikTok regardless of who holds the reins.

[–] CaptainSpaceman 11 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Why should you have to pick though?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Because we live in reality and there's no such thing as a perfect state

[–] CaptainSpaceman 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Thats a weird angle.

My thing is, advocating for JUST tiktok to be banned when the American companies are doing the same thing makes zero sense.

So again, why pick? Choose freedom.

[–] papalonian 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

So again, why pick? Choose freedom.

Ok, I've chosen freedom. Now what happens

[–] CaptainSpaceman -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Be a leader

[–] papalonian 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

So no real tangible advice then, right? Just telling people on the Internet they're not doing enough? Got it, thanks

[–] CaptainSpaceman 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

You need someone to tell you what to do?

[–] papalonian 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

No, but you came in and started doing it anyways, lol. Just wanted to see if there was any substance behind your "do better" message.

[–] CaptainSpaceman -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I actually didnt tho. Please show me on the doll where I told anyone what to do.

I do what I do, feel free to do you.

[–] papalonian 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Choose freedom.

Be a leader.

Dis u?

People generally don't not "choose" freedom. We didn't wake up one morning and say, y'know, I feel like giving away all of my personal data to the government. Telling people whom you've got no idea of their struggles to "be a leader" from your keyboard isn't constructive. It's noise at best, and condescending at worst. But you do you.

[–] CaptainSpaceman 1 points 6 months ago

I cant make your life more free for you. You have to do it.

I cant think of every way to make your life more free. You have to invoke your own creativity.

These are choices to make, and when pressed I responded. But I only offer advice, and it is open ended at worst.

Im not telling people how to live, im merely stating that them not shooting themselves in the foot would be beneficial if they say they dont like being shot in the foot.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

All you have are vague platitudes, stop acting as though you know shit.

You acted like you had perspective and fell on your face when called out.

Go read a book lmao

[–] CaptainSpaceman 1 points 6 months ago

Sensing lots of anger in your tone.

I like to lead by example, btw. Freedom starts within.

If youd really like to know how to progress further, think about how much money and time you have, then think about how much of each youre willing to invest in a given cause. That will tell you exactly what you can/will do about it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

choose freedom

Does this make the surveillance disappear today? What does this mean?

[–] CaptainSpaceman -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It means anyone picking a "side" in the US vs Tiktok debate should reconsider their position (imo anyways)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I didn’t pick aside. I don’t use TikTok and I don’t care who owns it. But I live in the US, theoretically I would rather one entity spying on me than two lol

[–] CaptainSpaceman -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Why not zero? Aim higher fam, people let themselves be surveilled too easily these days without any resistance

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

If I don’t want to be spied on by the US I would have to leave the country, which is not exactly an option. Then I would have to determine a country that does not spy on its citizens or is otherwise not spied on heavily by another country. I’d be very curious with that list looks like. I imagine it’s very small, and very undesirable.

I use a lot of digital tools to protect my privacy and have fought for digital privacy rights directly. Don’t lecture me please.

Where is this magical land you live?

Honestly I’m just getting tired of discussions where people lecture me about “just taking it laying down“ as if somehow I have the ability to end the US surveillance state or otherwise opt out of it. I have limited options, as do all of us. I am acknowledging reality, not saying I endorse it or don’t even push back where I can. These kinds of comments are flippant and annoying.

TL;DR: zero isn’t a real option today so don’t act like it is.

[–] CaptainSpaceman 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Ofc zero is an option, we just have to have the conversion to start the process

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Then why are you lecturing me.

[–] CaptainSpaceman 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Im having a conversation

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If that’s your idea of a “conversation” you need to reevaluate your tone and stop levying accusations.

[–] CaptainSpaceman 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Because I thought you could aim higher?

Sensitive much?

Edit: jokes aside, im down to talk more if youd like.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

reality

Weird angle

You okay bro?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Because that’s the way it is. My dislike of it is immaterial. It’s the current state of affairs today, June 4th, 2024.

It’s also why I said “if I have to pick.” Whenever these discussions come up people act like that’s an endorsement. No amount of qualifiers prevents this interpretation.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'd disagree because as an American the US government has a lot more impact on me than the Chinese

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

But it’s not either/or. It’s the US and ___

[–] KrapKake 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

But what are the Chinese going to be able to do you? If you are an American living under the American government theres much more they could do to you, such as locking you up.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Have you seen what Russia has been doing to us with a few basement bloggers?

Edit: it’s quite remarkable really

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

That is a strange question. If you use any service to consume media, the service has a huge influence on what information you receive. It is a common complaint over media. Using a service which is under control of someone who doesn't have your best interest in mind, is giving power over your media consumption to that actor. Which is bad. That is why you should care about who e.h. owns and controls the Washington Post.

Now, about TikTok... Well think about it.

[–] themeatbridge 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Ok, but you know there's a difference, right? One is prohibiting journalists from writing stories critical of the state, and the other is probibiting a foreign state from owning a communication platform. Those things are obviously not the same, and if you're insisting that they are, one can only conclude that your motivations are insincere and your arguments serve an agenda.

Chinese journalists are entirely free to come to America and report on the worst atrocities the US has ever committed. Visitors to China aren't allowed to mention the Tiananman Square massacre. Like at all. Forget publishing an article, police will question you if you take too many pictures in the square.

[–] cuchilloc 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Solid argument. I was agreeing with OP coz I have a tendency for extremism, and if you take banning tiktok as a starting point in the supposed “land of the free” , to the extreme, at some point you become like China too. But for now, they are far from there. I still disagree with banning TikTok; “practice what you preach”

[–] themeatbridge 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Oh, I think banning TikTok is stupid and little more than political theater by out of touch septuagenarian oligarchs. And I agree that the same idiots would march us all down a path towards fascism, if we go along willingly.

I just take exception to the idea that they are in any way relatable.

[–] cuchilloc 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

One thing to note is that a lot of US citizens do not even acknowledge that their country’s economy runs off of war; it’s like they don’t need to go “deny Tiananmen Square”; they just go full idiocracy. Also they mostly kill non-US citizens, so again, not the perfect analogy but it’s like: we don’t need to deny anything, we just make the avg Joe dumb enough to not even care.

[–] themeatbridge 1 points 6 months ago

I don't think you're wrong, but again that's not at all the same as totalitarianism. We can fight that with words, with education, with non-violence. It's iterative, and we can course-correct as we progress into the future. It's messy, and often goes in the wrong direction, but it's still ours.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's always the same bullshit when they want to take away your rights:

  • "Protect the children"
  • "Foreign influence" or "spies"
  • "Misinformation"
  • "Stop Terrorism"
[–] themeatbridge 3 points 6 months ago

Your right to own a social media app?