I think one thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the huge gap in the size of the communities. The largest beehaw communities have almost 20k subscribers while the largest I've seen from other instances seem to cap out at about 5k. I think the problem is that most of the users who still federate with beehaw will undoubtedly end up there. This presents serious difficulties for growing competing communities.

I listed Reddit's "secret rule" amongst long-term moderators and subreddit communities. Just straight up ban accounts that are younger than a certain age. That's already going to grossly clamp down on porn-spam and troll accounts, because it means that the trolls need to either buy a pre-made account, or the trolls have to wait a week with good behavior before engaging in troll activity.

EDIT: Is that enough for Beehaw.org? I don't know. But lets say INAA.net is just a time-delay. All accounts less than 1-week are only allowed to post to lemmy.world. All accounts older than that are unlocked to talk with Beehaw.org.

I personally got banned because I got into an argument with the admin there. They wrongly assumed that I was American and made a claim to counter my argument, I then pointed out their mistake that their claim doesn't apply to my country, and then -- Boom, banned.

I'm of the opinion that if you want a closed off, strongly moderated, safe space forum you probably shouldn't be federating with anyone.

@goat @dragontamer

I read the "essays" the beehive have to "join" and take part. In my view they wanted to make a space for their own community and choose a fediverse where they should have picked a closed off forum/discord/redditcopy.

Oh there's plenty that's needed.

The vast majority of users here are from #RedditBlackout and their eyes glaze over at that discussion point. They don't know what a "federated account" is.

What's needed is education? Community organization? Etc. etc. People are new to Lemmy and Fediverse. People are trying to figure out what the plan is. A lot of users are already feeling "betrayed" that they "chose the wrong server" when they registered here at lemmy.world.

Would they? Lemmy.ml is famously more moderated than Lemmy.world. They haven't blocked Lemmy.ml yet.

Beehaw.org is clearly aiming to be on the stricter-side of things. That's... fine. I don't agree with it, but I welcome this era of experimentation. Why? Because I've been part of communities that tore at each other's throats for the dumbest shit you've ever seen online. (XBox vs Playstation). I've been part of online guilds in video games where you'd launch DDOS attacks against other guilds.

This is just... internet troll tactics. What Beehaw has excellently done is step forward and start testing the new anti-troll tools available to them here in lemmy/Fediverse. I hope the best for them. Not because I agree with their leftist slant, but because I've been there. I've been part of communities that were systematically trolled by large, rival groups. Its not fun.

You've got it the other way around - Beehaw is defederating themselves from all the major instances, because they can't enforce a safe space like they want to at any kind of scale on this Fediverse model. Lemmy.world is about twice the size of Beehaw in number of users.

https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list

Only from beehaw.org, right? I'm still seeing this from sdf.org.

Am I misunderstanding or does this not just mean you'll have to choose your registered instance to match your needs, and if some instances you like are too widely considered problematic to access from a broadly useful instance you may have to have another identity there.

Somewhere like beehaw.org appears to be an instance that's likely to exclude fairly aggressively, so that's a consideration for whether you want that to be your home.

I don't see how one out of 160+ servers not connecting to sh.itjust.works would cut you out from the rest of the world.

I think of it more like being cut off from 1/160th of the fediverse. Unfortunate, but in the end a type of community I don't think I'll miss since our values don't align.

Given my perspective as part of the #RedditBlackout wave, I think its needed for me to explicitly point out this perspective this week. I recognize that you folk who have been hanging around the Fediverse longer than me already recognize this as reality. But this is a new world for a lot of the folk joining up Lemmy.world.

The issue, is that we were sold on "It doesn't matter which server you sign up for" on https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances. See this quote:

Don't overthink this. It doesn't matter which instance you use. You'll still be able to interact with communities (subreddits) on all other instances, regardless of which instance your account lives 🙂

This oversold the community, got a bunch of former Redditors signed up here, and now a bunch of people are feeling kinda-sorta betrayed by the values already.

I'd say that phone/face verification is an overkill. Moreover, as you have already mentioned not everyone would go for it. Especially the kind of people who like Fediverse and open-source software in general will be more wary of such practices in general, I suppose. I'm not a fan of such practices myself because I care about privacy and the proposed tactic really reminds me of mainstream social media.

I think that so far the verification system works just alright. Being verified by a small text while signing up works. Using the same pseudonym and contributing to the community with quality content and decent comment history to build yourself a positive reputation also does.

I don’t know how we could guide new users to these staging instances though

Read-only access to Beehaw.org, but with a message "Beehaw.org has a user-treaty with INAA.net. Only users older than 1-week can post to Beehaw.org instances"

I admit that these features don't exist yet. But why not? Lets first come up with the idea and try to figure out what is easiest to code.