this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2023
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Smart light switch with a good tactile UX (self.homeassistant)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by witten to c/homeassistant
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Hey all! I'm looking for a mythical local-only (Wifi, Z-Wave, or Zigbee) smart light switch that has a good feel and user experience when manually switching on/off. What I mean by that: I think my ideal UX is some sort of hard rocker switch like the very much not smart Leviton Decora switches. You hit the top of the rocker for on or hit the bottom of it for off, and it has a good, solid feel with each state change.

The problem comes when making one of these switches "smart," e.g. stuffing a Shelly or something behind it. The up/down directions won't correspond to on/off anymore, because the smart switch can turn the light on/off without affecting the rocker direction. Maybe this is okay and I just need to deal with it? Does anyone with a similar setup find this annoying? I guess it's no different than a traditional three-way switch.

Another option is to take out the dumb switches and replaces them entirely with smart ones. Almost all smart switches are single on/off toggle buttons (some have two buttons), sidestepping the up/down state problem described above. But I'm not sure I'd like the feel of a squishing a button into the wall instead of a tilting a rocker. I do have a few of an older model of this Eva Logik switch, which has two buttons and kinda sorta mimics the look of the Decoras—but it doesn't actually rock like traditional switches. The up/down buttons are more like clicky mouse buttons, and not the best tactile experience IMO. Plus, newer models apparently are no longer Tuya-convertible to Tasmota...

So am I just being too picky here? Does anyone else experience similar issues?

EDIT: Here's a TL;DR of the suggestions below, for anyone also looking to solve a similar probem:

  • Use a Jasco/GE Enbrighten series smart switch (Z-Wave, Zigbee, or Wifi)
  • Use a TPLink Kasa switch (Wifi via HA tplink integration)
  • Try an Innovelli Blue switch (Zigbee; there's also a Z-Wave variant)
  • Open your wallet for a Lutron Caséta Diva/Claro (proprietary, but local only)
  • Use a SONOFF SwitchMan M5 smart switch (Wifi?)
  • Just deal with your OCD and put a Shelly behind a dumb switch
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[–] kn33 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The up/down directions won’t correspond to on/off anymore, because the smart switch can turn the light on/off without affecting the rocker direction.

I think it's worth trying this. You can set the shelly to toggle the light every time the switch is changed. While up/down won't necessarily correspond to on/off anymore, it's certainly the most convenient. I think it's worth trying it and seeing if you get used to it.

Edit: used wrong words

[–] witten 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

You're probably right. I am interested though in hearing from folks who have Shelly's (or similar) paired with dumb switches to see if this is a non-issue for them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I have 6 Shelly's installed like this and it really is a non-issue. If the light isn't in the state I want, I flip the switch. I have no idea what orientation it's in and I couldn't care less. The same applies to my Wife and kids, nobody cares which direction is "on" and which is "off". It's pretty obvious if the light is on or off and if you want to change it, just flip it.

[–] witten 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Awesome, that's good to hear. Do you use the Shelly's with their stock firmware or have you flashed them with something? And do you find that their Wifi signal is strong enough?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I've had them for longer than the Shelly integration in hass existed so I'm using stock firmware and connect them to my MQTT server to avoid a cloud dependency. I haven't tried the hass integration or flashing them, this is working fine for me.

The WiFi signal is mostly fine. There are cases where it takes a second or two to update on hass, but that could also be the MQTT server being slow. It doesn't affect the operation of the lights since the Shelly's are configured to switch the light themselves and not depend on hass to give them the command, that way the light still work normally if hass is down.

[–] witten 1 points 2 years ago

Cool, thanks for the details. Avoiding both a cloud dependency and an HA dependency to switch lights on/off makes sense.

[–] kn33 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I can't help there, unfortunately. The only Shelly I have on a light is in-line (due to legacy wiring). When the switch is on, the Shelly is powered and it immediately turns on the light. When the switch is off, neither the Shelly nor the light have power. I basically have to leave the switch on always and rely on automation to control the light.

[–] witten 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Interesting. I guess that could work well if the light is fully automation-driven and you rarely need to override its state.

[–] kn33 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah. It's in a room where I'm happy enough with "When someone is home during (schedule), light is on". With that, I should only need to override for changing the bulb or other maintenance.

[–] witten 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Nice. I aspire to that level of automation. :D

[–] kn33 1 points 2 years ago

Yeah, it's definitely attainable. With UniFi for WiFi, so I can use that to tell who's home based on cellphones being connected to the WiFi. After that and the Shelly install, the rest is easy.

[–] solidgrue 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

You might look into the Jasco/GE Enbrighten series smart switches. I have the ZW3010, a 3-pole Decora style rocker dimmer switch on Z-Wave. Tap up/down takes the lights to full on/off, while long press up/down increases or decreases the dimming function. They come in Z-wave, Zigbee and WiFi flavors, so you have options there. Note: The main switch needs a neutral wire. They also come in 2-pole varieties, and I believe some variants can forego the neutral wire.

Like others, I drive the switch mainly through automations based on presence and schedules, but having the manual override is nice when you need the lights on at the odd time, or you need them full on to find a lost contact or whatever.

I mentioned the ZW3010 is a 3-pole. It side-cars with a rocker switch (or a chain of them) that are RF passive, but can be used to remotely control the main switch with the same tap and press gestures.

I picked mine up through Amazon. They are a little on the expensive side, but they've been rock solid in my setup since I installed them.

[–] witten 2 points 2 years ago

Awesome, thanks for the tip.. Those look great. I have neutral, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Mind sharing what you use for presence detection? Is that part of the switches you recommend?

[–] humantorchbankloan 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

love the innovelli blues

[–] witten 1 points 2 years ago

Checking those out now. Thank you!

[–] Jakor 1 points 2 years ago

Has the availability on these improved? I’d love to spring for innovelli from what I’ve been reading, but worry that I’ll only get to replace half of my lights in my house before they go out of stock everywhere, and I’m forced to use a difference switch for the other half of my lights

[–] duffkiligan 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Surprised no one mentioned the Lutron Caséta Diva/Claro. I use them on every switch and they are rock solid (though it does need a hub, still local) and they feel like real switches.

[–] witten 2 points 2 years ago

Spendy, but those look real nice!

[–] netburnr 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I really like the GE. They are also small enough to fit side by side which some of the earlier ones I purchased had trouble with.

Enbrighten Z-Wave Smart Toggle Light Switch with QuickFit and SimpleWire, 3-Way Ready, Compatible with Alexa, Google Assistant, ZWave Hub Required, Repeater/Range Extender, 2-Pack, 47899 , White https://a.co/d/azGTvFJ

[–] witten 1 points 2 years ago

Boooo referral link. But that is an interesting form factor. I hadn't seen toggle switches like that before.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yes, I like the tactile-ness. I went with SONOFF SwitchMan Smart Wall Switch-M5 - 2 Gang, 120. It is gray and has a very nice click when pressed. No on/off state though, it is just a clicky button.

[–] witten 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Now that is a futuristic-looking switch.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I hear you might be able to flash them with Tasmota but I haven't tried. The support through Ewelink for HomeAssistant is meh.

[–] witten 1 points 2 years ago

It'd make sense. SONOFFs are often amenable to flashing.