this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2024
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Programming

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I've used a US-QWERTY keyboard layout my entire life. I've seen other layouts that do things like reduce the size of the enter/backspace keys, move the pipe operator (|) and can't wrap my head around how I would code on those.

What are your experiences? Are there any layouts that you prefer for coding over US English? Are there any symbols that you have a hard time reaching ($ for example)?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

I use Colemak where most punctuation is at the same place as in the US English layout, which programming languages seem to be optimized toward. For the layout I prefer ISO for the larger Enter key.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I use a 42 key layout modified from bépo (french dvorak inspired layout) with the altgr layer of ergol. Go check this altgr layer it's awesome for programming, and there is a version compatible for qwerty and lafayette.

╭╌╌╌╌╌┰─────┬─────┬─────┬─────┬─────┰─────┬─────┬─────┬─────┬─────┰╌╌╌╌╌┬╌╌╌╌╌╮
┆     ┃   ¹ │   ² │   ³ │   ⁴ │   ⁵ ┃   ⁶ │   ⁷ │   ⁸ │   ⁹ │   ⁰ ┃     ┆     ┆
┆     ┃   ₁ │   ₂ │   ₃ │   ₄ │   ₅ ┃   ₆ │   ₇ │   ₈ │   ₉ │   ₀ ┃     ┆     ┆
╰╌╌╌╌╌╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂╌╌╌╌╌┼╌╌╌╌╌┤
·     ┃     │   ≤ │   ≥ │  *¤ │   ‰ ┃  *^ │     │   × │  *´ │  *` ┃     ┆     ┆
·     ┃   @ │   < │   > │   $ │   % ┃   ^ │   & │   * │   ' │   ` ┃     ┆     ┆
·     ┠─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂╌╌╌╌╌┼╌╌╌╌╌┤
·     ┃     │   ⁽ │   ⁾ │     │   ≠ ┃  */ │   ± │   — │   ÷ │  *¨ ┃     ┆     ┆
·     ┃   { │   ( │   ) │   } │   = ┃   \ │   + │   - │   / │   " ┃     ┆     ┆
╭╌╌╌╌╌╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂╌╌╌╌╌┴╌╌╌╌╌╯
┆     ┃  *~ │     │     │   – │     ┃   ¦ │   ¬ │  *¸ │     │     ┃           ·
┆     ┃   ~ │   [ │   ] │   _ │   # ┃   | │   ! │   ; │   : │   ? ┃           ·
╰╌╌╌╌╌┸─────┴─────┴─────┴─────┴─────┸─────┴─────┴─────┴─────┴─────┚ · · · · · ·
[–] deepfriedchril 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Does Dvorak count? I switched over when I made an egrodox style keyboard which in itself made typing generally more comfortable.

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[–] Asudox 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I've used AT QWERTZ ever since I was born.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

It's all usable when you get used to it, but this is a great thread to link for people who develop scripting and programming languages, or just text-based technical interfaces. Because yeah, all that crap is designed with the US layout in mind and screw whoever chooses to use ~ and | as commonplace characters.

FWIW, I don't even code and I still keep a US layer in the background. I forget which one I'm using constantly, it's all muscle memory. I just Win-space and try again whenever I type a character and it's not what I expect.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

DVORAK all the way, baby. Hardware-based via Unicomp 104.

[–] TheFonz 3 points 11 months ago

Dvorak gang here. Never going back to QWERTY.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I just use the Swiss keyboard layout. Here's an image from Wikipedia.

Don't have any experience with any others.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I use Canadian Multilingual on a ISO-style keyboard, mostly because my main language is French and typing accents on a US keyboard is horrible.

Coding makes a hefty use of Alt ("option" on mac), but they're relatively well-placed (see the labels on the bottom-right of the keys in the pic)

My main annoyance with it is that the ANSI-style keyboard puts "ù" to the left of "1", instead of the "/" you get on that key on a ISO keyboard (where ù is between the left shift and z). You can see how annoying this would be when programming or using the command-line. And of course, Apple stores only stock MacBooks with ANSI keyboards...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I use a plain 34 keys layout based on qwerty for letters, comma/dot/semicolon. The numpad and symbols layers are handcrafted so that every symbol is easy to reach, it's also optimize to type things like <- and -> easily

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

They wouldn't be using them if they didn't think they were superior. Even if it is just because they are used to them.

[–] Giooschi 3 points 11 months ago

My laptop has an italian layout keyboard because it was a pain to find a good priced one with the US layout. On windows there's no way to do the ` and ~ symbols without using Alt combinations and on linux you need to use a weird compose key. Also square brackets require you to press Shift and curly brackets require both Shift and Alt.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I used to use ANSI, but then moved to England and bought a laptop and returned it because of the “weird” ISO keyboard, then forever bought dell because I could customise it.

Moved back to ANSIland, but will still probably just buy dell.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I use UK standard layout, and Apple UK for work. It always takes me a few minutes to switch between them, but both are absolutely fine for programming. Just the odd placement of # that bothers me a little, but I tend to use that only for Python comments - which I tend to do more commonly from a keyboard shortcut anyway.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I use the German Layout Neo which has especially nice layers for programming https://neo-layout.org/

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I'm italian and I'm absolutely ashamed to say that I use an italian ISO keyboard for programming. It's missing some symbols like the backtick but I can't get used to US ANSI so I just configured some macros to type the missing characters.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

You can adapt to a new layout pretty easily. I already did it twice due to moving to new country.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

French keyboard azerty has easier accents, cant live without em now.

Used to have a qwerty so sometimes the muscle memory derps a little, but when I accidently change the layout Im always mildly impressed that I can remember which key is which.

[–] LANIK2000 2 points 11 months ago

I'm Czech and also speak fluent German, but I rarely use my native languages on my personal PC, so I got used to the US layout. Nowadays I use US layouts that have my native letters on the AltGr key, my Linux pc has an "American - Czech, Slovak, German" layout like that and at work on windows I use the Czech Programmer layout. However, most of my coworkers use the regular Czech keyboard, even for programing, which freaks me out.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I used to use the Brazilian ABNT-2 layout, it's pretty much just a US layout with accent keys that activate like a second layer for some specific keys to display specific Portuguese language characters such as ç á à â ã é è etc. It's surprisingly ok for programming as it doesn't get in the way because you have special keys to activate the 2nd layer and most of them you need to spread shift + something in order to activate them. I'd say it's a good layout.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I use a sub-40% layout that I love. I wrote all about it here: https://natecox.dev/lets-talk-about-keyboards

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