this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
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TL;DR: I wonder why we always have the same 2 posts as top posts of the day. They appear a bit unnecessary and mildly annoying to me.
Do you think the same? Or do you like them, and can explain me why, so I can change my view?
Please don't just blindly downvote, writing this post took a lot of time. And if you feel the need to do it anyway, tell me why first.


Maybe I am the only person who thinks that.
I probably am, at least according to numbers.

Basically, I've got the feeling that every top post of the day for the last weeks is something like "I've freed myself from evil Windows' shackles and finally switched to Linux.", or "What distro do you recommend?".

Don't get me wrong.
I feel super happy for every newcomer discovering the wonderful world of Linux and FOSS.
I, just like most others here, always try to help them in finding their right distro and guiding them in their first steps.
We all have been there.
And I'm super proud of us all, as a community, that we happily embrace every new member. We definitely have to keep that behaviour, it's what connects us and makes us strong.

I just think we should redirect them a bit onto the specific communities.
Not by banning or censoring, just as friendly reminder, e.g. by a sticky post, comments like "Hey, check out [email protected]" or something else.

It doesn't help much if there are the same threads every day, with people circlejerking on hating Windows and recommending Mint a hundred times, just like 100 people before did on the same thread.

I hate Windows too, but it feels like we're identifying and comparing ourselves with the bitter ex-partner we had a while ago. No, not being Windows shouldn't be the main reason Linux is great.
There are so many great posts and discussions, that are all going missing in this swamp of "Winblows bad, hehe".
We should focus on what makes our software great, and not what the "bad ex-partner" did wrong.

Same with newcomer posts.
I think if the posters get redirected to the correct sub, they will receive more help, since the people partaking in the community are there because they wanna see exactly that.


At the same time, I'm afraid this would undermine our openness and friendliness of this community, and result in being as shitty as Reddits' sub.

!Just as an anecdote, when I was a noob, I posted a question there, and, like 5 minutes later, I got a dozen of non-constructive, offensive comments. 10 minutes later, my post got removed. This was my first contact to the Linux world btw. Guess who switched back to Windows for another half year because of that?
We have to prevent this at any costs.
Anyway... !<


I really enjoy this community here and wanna keep it this great.
I just wanted to ask you, what you think about those everyday-top-posts.
If you like them, please try to change my mind and explain me why :)


Edit/ Additional stuff/ Learnings:

  • I don't hate those "I switched to Linux"-posts, just to clarify. They're fine for me, they just feel like white noise. But I've read many times in this thread that a lot of people enjoy those posts. If that's the case, I'm totally fine! :)
  • I think putting those posts in a weekly sticky thread could be worth an idea? Then everyone could describe their experience of this week of switching from one distro to another, e.g. "My first week of Gentoo" or something like this. Would be an interesting read for everyone.
  • I also believe those "Fuck Windows"-posts can be kind of therapeutic for some people, since Windows became really shitty and annoying in the last years. And when you feel the relieve from finally getting rid of it, you tell that everyone. Understandable.
  • Splitting the community isn't the best idea too. We can always learn from each other and I like the diversity of this community.
  • Thank you for your kind and constructive answers! ✌️
(page 3) 41 comments
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[–] Quazatron 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you send the noobs to a noob specific community with other noobs, then you pass the chance to share some of your knowledge that may save the noob from doing some silly stuff because of the bad habits he picked up while using Windows.

I think that it may be slightly annoying and repetitive, but it is important to give noobs a nudge in the right direction.

You can always ignore the posts, or contribute with fresh content. 😉

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I like seeing the posts of people finding comfort with their new linux installs even tho they might appear a couple of times.

Linux is still considered a niche so the most likelihood of the newer folk appearing is higher then the more experienced ones. Also I wasn't always experienced and if it wasn't for newbie friendly content I wouldn't be here helping other people as well.

After all, information doesn't spawn out of thin air, it requires someone to carry and distribute it so that other people become also educated in those ways.

Which is way I find weird finding some people say "people are dumb they should do x, y or z cause its better" but then they don't provide any information and expect others to also know what they already know/have learned recently.

In conclusion, sharing is caring and I don't mind people sharing their experiences which also helps others on the same situation.

[–] CosmicCleric 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Responding with a meta level tangent comment, but I can't help feeling that when I read these type of comments that it's just Microsoft astroturfing, trying to shape the narrative away from migration to Linux.

Especially when you see those "I still can't get my favorite single game that uses anti-cheat tech or strange peripheral to work with Linux, so Linux sucks for all gaming" posts.

Just kind of seems like there's this stealthy narrative warfare going on.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Dang it, you got me!

Just kidding 🙃
I get why you think about that. I sometimes enjoy thinking about "conspiracies" like those too.
Especially with the rise of LLMs and bots, it doesn't sound unrealistic tbh.

On the other hand, I don't believe MS does care about us at all, or at least that much.
Years ago, yes. But they're really good at their "Embrace, extend and extinguish" practice. They "love" Linux now, don't forget that. Home users leaving Windows isn't that big of a problem for them, as long as we continue using their services, like Edge, Outlook and Teams.
The MS ecosystem also dominates the business world and won't get replaced anytime soon, and this field is where the paying customers are.


About the fake-accounts: if I'm not certain if I am reading a troll post, checking the profile helps.
For example, I'm a mod of some communities, have a very long and extensive post- and comment history, and behave like a human would (which basically means I'm very dumb sometimes 🌝).
So, the chances of me being a troll from Microsoft is there, but slim.

I have to admit: I was the same as the example from you in my beginning times.
Here's my story if you wanna read it:

!I have never worked with IT things 3 years ago when I started, it was all new for me. I didn't even find the download-button on GitHub.
But, dumb ass me, tried to install Arch (iirc) on a fucking Microsoft Surface tablet. Of course that didn't work.
Then Manjaro, Fedora, Mint, ElementaryOS, and 10 other distros. I spent about 3 weekends burning USB sticks and installing distros.
Just because it didn't work ootb. Of course it didn't because I needed the surface-linux-kernel.
I can't (couldn't) deal with frustration (at that time) and posted a "I'll go back to Windows" on Reddit because I was so fed up.
I'm still incredibly thankful for that one person that therapeutically asked me many questions on why and guided me step by step.
"Now, type in git clone xx && chmod xx. What's the result?", "Oh, you forgot sudo, try it again", etc.. !<

!He talked to me like a he would explain it to a 5 year old, but that was what I needed.
Somehow we got it working together after a few hours of troubleshooting, even though my frustrated dumbass failed in basically every task, including breathing.
I still can't explain how he got the patience for that. !<

!I cried out of happiness and used the device for 2 more years because of that.
It was probably this one person that helped me stay on Linux, and I'll never forget that.!<

I want to be the same as this mentor, and I think just offering frustrated noobs a helping hand and open ear will help a lot.
Being unconventionally/ unfittingly friendly can open many doors! They often need some type of vent, and if it helps them feeling better, great! Post like those usually don't get much attention anyway, so I think the risk of them turning someone else off Linux is not that high.

[–] CosmicCleric 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I get why you think about that. I sometimes enjoy thinking about “conspiracies” like those too.

Truthfully, your response was WAY too weirdly (no disrespect meant) verbose to reply to (apologies), but I did want to reply to this one point, that I've quoted above.

I truly don't think it's a ""conspiracy"", I think that really happens today.

I think there is a stealthy warfare of the management of the narrative that goes on between corporations and regular people/customers, especially when it comes to protecting their businesses, their profits, and their products. Astroturfing, etc.

I don't believe it's 'tinfoil hat time' (my phrasing, not yours) to express such a thing. I think its just acknowledging that such a thing truly exists, because any corporation would be foolish not to take advantage of the tools available to them to maximize their success/profits (unfortunately, even if it trashes the country).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Tragedy of the Commons.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

It's nice to get some idea of how many people are switching over, it seems to have had an uptick recently, 3 people I know in real life have tried using Linux as their daily driver in the past few months who hadn't previously

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I don’t personally get anything from this threads. It’s kinda self congratulatory. I guess I understand being excited about it though

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Yes.

These posts are the "I voted for peace" decorative lapel button of the '60s and '70s. These posts were the leading edge in the '90s and a little of the '00s.

Now they're tiresome. It's like people who've come late to the party and want their fanfare; people who came last in the race and proclaim themselves the leaders. The race is over, the banners are down, the spotlight's off and the newsmedia's gone home. No need to proclaim victory, nor virtue-signal inclusion in a group that isn't exclusive.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Uff, where to start? I'm slit 50/50 on your view. I think you're absolutely right that the best option would be a sticky saying something along the lines of "welcome to a new and better life of freedom. We're here to help you. Please start by reading (whatever sticky post to make them feel welcome and give them a jump start), and we look forward to evolving towards full cyber freedom together".

And I agree that, some times, we can be a bit vexing to newcomers. Having said that, most, if not all of us, have been that newcomer all too happy to notify everyone that "I've finally gotten free of the poisonous claws of the devil, Microshot". So, I also understand why people would do that. I was there once, and was so happy I switched, I wanted to put an ad on Cable TV and every newspaper and magazine in the world for every creature to know.

After a while, I still blast windows every now and then, but inly to die-hand windows advocates.

Having said that, the sticky is just one of many potential options to curb these posts, but they will never cease to happen. As I said, the feeling is so awesome that lots of us just want to scream it to the top of our lungs.

Is it a bit annoying to see that every time you come in here there are 10 new posts with the exact same thing? Yes, sometimes it is. But it's also true that I enjoy it when I see another person finally managing to open their eyes and risk having to learn something new, different to the only thing they've know probably for years or even decades. This helps put Gnu-Linux on the map of developers, which in turn can attract more people, so, full-circle benefit.

I can't think of any options right now, but when I feel a bit annoyed by it, I just move on and keep browsing for what actually interests me at the moment. Other times, I may actually upvote, reply while congratulating and letting them know we're here to help navigate these new waters, and share a few tutorials, options and all that good stuff.

At the end of the day I think it all boils down to each of our moods the moment we see those. My mood towards them is pretty "bipolar", to say the least, lol.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Most of those posts are fake too, just karma farming.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I feel like limiting or discouraging them would really hurt adoption.

Many times people share their use cases.

If someone with similar use cases finds out "wait, it us possible for me yo use Linux?" they could become tomorrow's post.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The F Windows posts are great and can be very therapeutic. But guaranteed those users haven’t issued a command that accidentally wipes out their entire drive accidentally. Or they haven’t had their Window Manager just up and decide it doesn’t feel like working anymore because of an update.

I work with Linux a lot simply because of my 3D printers and I love it. But being on a community driven edge can be a nightmare sometimes when something updates and you’ve got to track down the problem. For me that’s half the fun since I usually get to help someone else out with the same issue.

[–] CosmicCleric 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

But guaranteed those users haven’t issued a command that accidentally wipes out their entire drive accidentally.

Really?

Yeah, I can see the horde of Mint, PopOS, and a Ubuntu users running towards that command line prompt. /s

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I meant it more as an inexperienced Linux user having to fix something and inadvertently causing havoc more so than drive wiping.

[–] doingless 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm working on phasing out windows in my office as much as I can entirely because of the end of win10 and the dumb requirements of windows 11. I'm still running it on my main home PC though because I'm insanely busy and like to game for like 5-10 hours a week and and want to spend zero hours getting games to run. If I buy a game on steam and it doesn't work I instantly I refund it even if I could probably figure it out.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Fair enough, but kinda off-topic.

[–] TCB13 -1 points 9 months ago

It doesn’t help much if there are the same threads every day, with people circlejerking on hating Windows and recommending Mint a hundred times, just like 100 people before did on the same thread.

I hate Windows too, but it feels like we’re identifying and comparing ourselves with the bitter ex-partner we had a while ago. No, not being Windows shouldn’t be the main reason Linux is great.

We should focus on what makes our software great, and not what the “bad ex-partner” did wrong.

I completely agree with you and said many times that while I don't like the fact that Windows isn't open-source it does provide a LOT of value for a LOT of people who work on certain fields and haver certain software requirements. With Windows there's a lot of commercial support when it comes to Linux desktop it simply isn’t there.

If you require “professional” software such as MS Office, Adobe Apps, Autodesk, NI Circuit Design and whatnot Linux isn’t a viable options. The alternatives wont cut it if you require serious collaboration… virtualization, emulation (wine) may work but won’t be nice. Going for Linux kinda adds the same pains of going macOS but 10x. Once you open the virtualization door your productivity suffers greatly, your CPU/RAM requirements are higher and suddenly you’ve to deal with issues in two operating systems instead of just one. And… let’s face it, nothing with GPU acceleration will ever run decently unless big companies start fixing things - GPU passthroughs and getting video back into the main system are a pain and add delays.

To make things worse the Linux desktop development ecosystem is essentially non existent. The success of Windows and macOS is the fact that they provide solid and stable APIs and development tools that “make it easy” to develop for those platforms and Linux is very bad at that. The major pieces of Linux are constantly and ever changing requiring large and frequent re-works of apps. There aren’t distribution “sponsored” IDEs (like Visual Studio or Xcode), userland API documentation, frameworks etc.

[–] Cold_Brew_Enema -2 points 9 months ago

It's because half the people that post here's entire personality is using Linux.

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