Because, abhorrent though Israel’s response to the October slaughter has been, it’s not clear that it meets the legal definition of genocide. S. Africa’s chance of success in the case are uncertain and it would be unhelpful for a bloc that is interesting in mediating to be involved
this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
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@HeartyBeast @roastedDeflator mediating? When? When no people and no Palestinian land is left? Let the slaughter ends and then "mediate" with the criminals? The real reason is that european governments can switch on and off their interests for human rights depending on the color of the skin of the victims.
I’m not arguing that Israel hasn’t committed war crimes, in particular‘collective punishment but I don’t think that the legal test for genocide is likely to be met and EU will be mindful of that. I don’t think racism factors in, particularly.
Personally I’m glad that that S. Africa is bringing the case as Israel’s reaction does need to be a scrutinised
@HeartyBeast @roastedDeflator If it isn't racism I don't know what else. We spent the last two years with the media and the politicians making a big drama every time a russian bomb hit a building in Ukraine even if noone had a scratch (and rightfully so), and now that we have bombs daily killing hundreds of civilians everything is bussines as usual? That is racism my friend.
We don't even have all those drama about Ukraine anymore, simply because the disparity would be too obvious.
If it isn't racism I don't know what else.
I think I've just told you.
We spent the last two years with the media and the politicians making a big drama every time a russian bomb hit a building in Ukraine
I think the level of support for Ukraine you see would be rather different if it had had sent in fighters and killed 12,000 Russian and foreign nationals, including civilians and children - and left 5431 injured as an initial act of aggression. You might even have found substantial international support for a Russian attempt at regime change.
you make a good point. But the Hamas attack did not happen in a vacuum.
Absolutely, the Palestinians have suffered, oppression and occupation for decades.
But drawing parallels, still - if Ukraine had slaughtered that number and pointed out that Russia had illegally occupied the Crimea, with nothing more than a bit of international tutting - I still think the international community would have been sympathetic to retaliation by Moscow.
it's an interesting idea.
but we should not forget that Israel kills many people each year in places like the west bank where there is no Hama's control. so again, we should not forget that this atack was not like 9/11 which came out of the blue. it's the result of systemic oppression.
mediating to be involved
What mediating?
Germany seems to be compromised and a big player in the EU
How dare anyone accuse the survivors of a Holocaust of perpetuating the same thing. Against others.
Idk maybe because that's what they're doing.
Israel's "right to return" meant a large influx of right wing capitalists from behind the iron curtain. As soon as it was possible in the early 1990s.
Israel's politics after that point changed. Those people were political refugees or economic migrants and left places crippled by Soviet rule.
But they aren't the victims of a holocaust, everyone behind the iron curtain was a victim of what they faced. They took a way out.
The problem is they are in general radicalised by the "left wing" Soviets into being extremely individualistic and right wing politically. Meanwhile they still carry the strongman style authoritarian belief unchanged.
It's about 15% of Israel's population but that migration politically changed how they treated Palestine. They've swung the country to the right and to authoritarianism.
The actual victims of Holocaust are angry at what Israel has become.
Israel’s politics after that point changed. Those people were political refugees or economic migrants and left places crippled by Soviet rule.
Are you sure? The PM at that point was "break their bones" Rabin. There was literally never a moment when Israel wasn't an Apartheid state built on Lebensraum.
Neither Yasser Arafat, nor Yitzhak Rabin were good people.
But the time following the Oslo accords represents the closest the Palestinians have had to any normalcy in their every day lives.
Both sides calling for an end to violence, some Israeli settlements recognised by Israel as illegal.
Netanyahu undid that step by reversing the decision on settlements, leading in no small part to Hamas breaking the peace and winning popularity by doing so.
Eventually winning elections over the PLO and then Netanyahu ceasing elections in Palestine.
Netanyahu and Hamas are two sides of the same coin, they support each other. But Israel is the only country with a democratic way to remove one of them.
If you look at the Northern Irish peace process you see problems on both sides but steps taken towards peace by both.
Rabin and Arafat took steps towards peace together and while praising either of them as a whole would be wrong due to their pasts, those steps are worthy of recognition.
Northern Ireland was a religious war too, caused by colonial intrusion and partition. That's often forgotten underneath the nationalism of the UK and Ireland. The dynamics are not dissimilar.
But the time following the Oslo accords represents the closest the Palestinians have had to any normalcy in their every day lives.
Yeah. It's actually surprising Rabin out of all people was the paragon of peace in Israel, but I'm not denying it; I just wanted to say that Israel has always elected people like Netanyahu, even before the 90s. I'm not very informed on Israeli political history, but the Nakba happened in 1949 and has continued ever since. It's possible that it became worse after the 90s because it's hard to reach Netanyahu's level, but Israel's political climate has always favored "Let's build Lebensraum on Palestinian land" candidates.
Yeah it is just as ridiculous as it sounds, especially when that's exactly what's happening. We truly live in the worst timeline.
/s?
I also hoped so but since he bothered to right another comment bellow saying:
I am chuckling at the downvotes. Keep em coming
instead of clarifying a misunderstanding, my hopes vanished. Still, thanks for asking, cause I'd rather be wrong on this one.
I am chuckling at the downvotes. Keep em coming.