As a plumber this looks like a nightmare and the only solution in my eyes is remove more concrete and relocate that water line so you never have to deal with this again.
this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2023
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One of the competing options is indeed to tear up a bit of the plaster+lath bedroom wall on the other side of the wall, then remove a brick or two. Strictly speaking, I’m supposed to get planning permission to mess with structural walls (& IIUC all brick walls are structural). Not sure if it’s realistically important to get planning permission to knock out a brick.
Depends on the kind of brick. Cinder block, most likely yeah. Orange bricks? Those are usually for looks, or to cover an outside wall. They're too thin to be structural. Well I'd hope so anyways.
Probably against code everywhere to have a shut-off valve inside a shower, but I'm not a plumber. I'd relocate it anyways. No matter what you do it's asking for trouble if it stays in there. But you should ask a plumber in your area, they would be familiar with the necessary codes you have to follow, especially if you're renting out those units.
Orange bricks? Those are usually for looks, or to cover an outside wall. They’re too thin to be structural. Well I’d hope so anyways.
Clay bricks can definitely be structural, and often are in older buildings. The key is that when they are structural, the wall will almost^1^ always be made out of two or three wythes instead of just one. If you're trying to figure out if the wall has multiple wythes but you don't have access to look at the sides/top/thickness of it, you can also tell by the fact that there would be occasional half-width bricks every few courses (because those bricks are turned 90° in order to span two wythes and tie the wall together). If the entire height of the wall is running-bond with no interruptions, then it's very likely^1^ ^again^ a brick veneer and not structural.
^1^ Apparently there are exceptions where a structural wall can be made out of only one layer. I'm not sure I'd trust a building built that way, though...
It’s an old terraced house built back in the day when building codes did not require homes to be self-supporting with a gap between them. So the houses actually lean on each other. Whenever a house is removed in my area, huge steel spreaders are installed horizontally to keep the adjacent houses upright.
One idea I have is to just drill a 6mm or 8mm hole and just have a long home-built shaft reach the valve from the bedroom to the shower. the pitfall is that alignment must be spot on precise.
After making the floor/walls flush with the existing shower, I'd either:
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use pvc glue to construct a pvc cover/box out of (relatively thick) white pvc sheet and corner profiles. Bolt cover to wall/floor. Use a rubber seal(thick white PTFE tape?)on all edges of the box to make it water tight once you clamp it down. (this is assuming you don't have a vacuum former, access to a 3d printer or are unable to find something to cannibalise)
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tiled/grouted corner box with a little door. Tile door, thick white rubber tape and bolts to ensure it's a tight seal.
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leave the pipe exposed, but replace the ugly industrial valve with a nice chromed (and therefore largely rust resistant) one like this.
To be honest, I'd go with the last option, but pop some extra silicone around where the pipe comes out of the wall/floor. That's another likely weakspot for rust.
The tiled concrete solution isn't bad, but I don't get whoever made it cheaped out on the valve.
e: oh and if there's the option to install the valve in the basement or somewhere else, I'd 100% go that way and remove this valve entirely.
Why not just add a hatch to the box you considerd so you can open the box and access the valve? It shouldn't be too hard to find a prebuilt valve box that looks decent in your bathroom. Most I know are for outdoor applications but no reason why they can't be used indoors. And building it yourself also shouldn't be too hard.
To make it look even better you could also consider putting a removable shelf on top of the valve box. That way it's more hidden and you have a spot to put soaps or other bathroom essentials.
That might be a good simple approach. I’ll look for outdoor plastic boxes that have a rubber seal. Maybe construction adhesive could attach tiles to it.
It's the best approach, also for cleaning. Extra stuff like that in the shower gets lots of soap residue stuck on it and can become moldy or attract bacteria. People need to be able to clean it easily and that handle is not easy to clean. Also cleaning agents may cause the parts to corrode. A little sealed box will solve all of that.
If you are going to open up everything and shut off the water to replace the valve, the best solution is to put the valve somewhere else. Either up high on the wall so it won't get wet or turn it to access it from the other side of the wall cavity.
If I move it higher, it will take on less water. But there would still be some water unless I move it all the way to the ceiling, which would really lengthen the path the water must go.
Regarding the other idea, it seems the house was extended at one point in time. So the wall was once an exterior wall and is very thick (~50cm?) and solid (concrete, brick, or combo of the two). Not sure if I’d be weakening it structurally to do that. It’s in a corner though, so there is perhaps an interior wall I could move it to the other side of. But I think it’s brick & thus also structural. Perhaps feasible though. It’s hard to be enthusiastic about demolishing part of a plaster & lath bedroom wall to reach it, but it could be the best option. I have to wonder if the original builders had a good reason for not doing that. Tricky though since I’ve seen plenty of dodgy work from the past builders of this house.
Is there a basement or crawl space underneath?
There is another shower underneath with easily removable PVC ceiling and access to the pipe. So indeed theoretically I could put the valve in the shower ceiling of the lower apartment. But that segment of pipe is galvanized steel, so I would have to cut it and add threads. I actually have the ratcheting tool to do that but I would still need to buy the threading die. It’d be a bit weird if the lower apartment had the control over the water above. Not a show stopper but I think there are better options.
If you have access then you can run a new line away from the bathroom, put a new shut off anywhere you want and then return it back to where you started. Think of a big loop with just a shut off on it.
Also neither a plumber or an electrician. I fuck with some simple plumbing. Some toilet stuff. A light switch or even a ceiling fan. I wouldn’t know how to help you here. You need a professional.
A photo would probably help to come up with realistic ideas.... Maybe you could use a cover box for electrical outlets somehow?
I just added pics to the original thread.
This one's certainly new.
They make specific valves for this purpose, which can be enclosed in concrete and where the cartridge can be replaced from the front without needing to break the concrete, with faucet cartridges like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HD6PX74/
Interesting concept. I’m glad to be aware of that option. However, I have very low confidence of any fitting that attaches to PEX. So I would still want the joint of the fitting relatively unburied as well. One side of the valve is galvanized pipe. I suppose I could replace the PEX with steel as well and then join the PEX to the steel under the showerpan. I’ll have to keep that in mind.
@Damage I’m tempted to get a valve with a replaceable cartridge even though I hope to make the fitting accessible anyway— just because it seems like a smarter design.
What do you call that kind of valve?
I tried an image search for “water valve with replaceable cartridge” & most hits were taps & shower mixers. A local shop had one that looked kind of like this. The lower portion was simpler, but the handle is the same. My concern is that the handle is designed for a human hand and I would actually be running a steel rod to the handle so I can control it from an adjacent room. Most valves seem to have a removable handle so you can easily attach a tool to it.
I would like to find one that has a removable handle and a removable cartridge for full versatility.
I'm not a plumber, nor do I pretend to dabble in plimbing...
Can you switch the ball valve and turn handle to a PVC product? That's a thing, right?
Maybe. That reminds me, there are ball valves that have an extra long shaft (like 10cm). So I could box the thing nicely with wood frame & tile, caulk the box for easy access the next time the valve needs to be replaced, and have just the handle exposed (almost like it was before). Two problems though:
- these valves with a longer shaft are 20× more expensive than regular ball valves.
- i’m not sure it’s possible to seal the small hole around the shaft since the shaft must be able to move.
If those problems were solved, I could possibly even hand-make PVC handle.
Put a box around it?
Are you talking about what I mentioned as “idea 1”? This is probably what I will attempt, but the question is how do you make a water-tight box that can be removed frequently (whenever the water needs to be turned off/on)?
Oh shoot, I didn't notice that post expanded. I only saw the first 3 paragraphs.
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