this post was submitted on 02 May 2024
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The way you feel about men is the way I feel about women since I've been sexually assaulted by several, but I'll bet you're gonna call me a piece of shit for that or say the assaults were justified because I'm a man.
If we're gonna take wide swings about other people's characters, be aware that you're not immune.
What? No. Why would anyone ever do that? Sexual assault is always wrong regardless of gender. And I am truly sorry that happened to you. But it's beyond disingenuous to pretend these are happening in equal amounts.. There is a reason so many women feel unsafe, because statiscally this is far more likely to happen to us. Just like a white person can be a victim of bigotry, but saying "all lives matter" misses the reality of racism for PoC.
But like, I've been sexually assaulted by men and women during my life too. Why are you bringing this up? I don't see what either of our experiences have to do with your claim that women are just being sexist? So complaining the women talking about their statistical reality as "misandrst" is just a knee jerk reaction that misses the point.
Imma be fair here and point out that female on male rape is massively under-reported and under-documented because of a wording issue. Rape in many countries is defined only as penetration of the victim. A woman forcing a man to penetrate her therefore doesn't count no matter how obviously it was done against his will.
Nah, that's working as intended according to the "bear>man" crowd.
I dunno, ask my ex, the most outspoken feminist I ever met. Her exact response to me telling her that I'd been assaulted was "oh boo hoo." Shortly thereafter, she tried to spermjack me.
So then you recognize that my fear is unfounded, whether I can convince myself of that fact or not? Perhaps even pathologically so?
Also, ask any man you're close to (if you're able to get over the crushing fear of being near someone with a penis) how many times he's been assaulted. Then ask him why he's never reported it. If he had, he was either going to get called a pussy (mostly by women, in my experience) or he'd get laughed out of whatever police station he reported it at. Oh, or because he's afraid she'll flip the script and claim that he raped her, which people will actually listen to. Whoops, there goes several years of his life, all for the low, low price of getting sexually assaulted.
If you want to talk about unspoken realities, the male sexual assault rates are a particularly grim one.
God, the irony here is too much, I don't like to bring this up but I just can't contain myself.
Dude. I have a penis. I am a trans woman. Dig around in my post history if you want proof. But I have lived about 2 decades of my life presenting as a man, and then the last decade as a woman. I have been sexually assaulted multiple times in my life before and after transition.
So I literally know EXACTLY what you are talking about. But what I'm trying to tell you, is that the amount of sexual harassment I have faced as a woman is exponentially more than the harassment I faced while looking like a boy/man. It's not even close. When I presented "male", I would often walk outside at night. Hell I used to work outside at anight job. That's simply not something I can do as a girl, you know why? Because I have been literally chased multiple times by men "who just want to talk", I'm lucky I was able to reach gated doors. I've had to pull out pepper spray men who have followed me to my car when I wouldn't talk to them, I've had men follow me in to a movie theater, sit down next to me, and place their hand on my knee while smirking. These things that literally never happened before transition. The average man, is WILDLY more prone to harassing than the average woman.
I know better than most what each gender faces in terms of harassment. So if you wanna talk about our personal experience, let me tell you what the overwhelmingly common factor is? That men are straight out more violent, yes a few overly handsy women made me leave some parties when they wouldn't take no for an answer, but that's not really a compassion to the violence that men display when they have chased me in the last few years.
Calling women, trans and cis alike, misandrist for feeling unsafe around men, is absolute BS.
Then you need to respect my fear of women equally, since I've been drugged multiple times, assaulted while sleeping, shamelessly groped in public in broad daylight, and so on. I have no interest in continuing your sad little game of one-downsmanship, but if my mindset is misogynist, then your similarly-derived, similarly-worded mindset is misandrist.
Huh? Honestly I feel like you've sorta lost the plot. Where exactly did I say anything to the contrary? Scroll back up and look at the times I said assault was wrong regardless of gender and anyone that would mock you is also wrong.
You have a right to fear whoever you like. All I'm saying is that calling women misandry for having a safety fear around men is totally bunk. I have literally zero opinion about your own fears and absolutely would not call them sexist.
You're literally accusing me of the exact thing you are doing.
The plot here is that I recognize my fear as patently ridiculous and am working on myself to try and allay it, rather than shitting on all women everywhere. Being constantly told that I'm more terrifying than X, Y, or Z thing because of my sex is one of the main contributors to my exceedingly low self-esteem and suggests to me that society at large believes I deserve everything that's happened to me.
You know, kinda like "look what she was wearing" does for a rape survivor.
Men are human beings, just like you.
Okay, but the difference here is that it is NOT patently ridiculous for women to be afraid of men. Like, you have to ignore statistics, history and all sorts of lived experiences to say this. My anecdotal memories aside, there is a reason SO MANY WOMEN are saying "the bear". It's not something that women need to work on, it's not them just shitting on men, it's the reality of how our patriarchal world works. Women aren't just bitching about feeling like victims, we ARE.
I feel for you, I truly do. But I really need you to take a step outside of your perspective and understand why these "man vs bear" discussions are being had. I am truly sorry that a trait you were born with is making you feel attacked, but that is also the lived experience of women as well. Women did not chose to be statiscal targets of violence, but its the world we occupy.
And this entirely seperate how self esteem, and physical safety, just aren't the same ballpark. This is just a different flavor of "Critical race theroy is racism because it makes white people feel bad", which like, yeah white feelings (and yours) are valid and you are entitled to them. But that's just the context of people talking about how our unfair world attacks different people differently. All of us have problems, but to say they are all equivalent is naive and selfish. Your "not all men" argument is preventing you from understanding the lived reality of women. Of COURSE not all men are rapists, but enough (backed by statics) are that its dangerous for women to NOT openly acknowledge and discuss it.
I think the better way to improve your self esteem, instead of coming to this thread to call women/me misandrist (aka "BLM are the REAL racist") is to actually tend to your own strengths and know that if you are not a rapist. Then women aren't talking about you. We don't know each other, I was never talking about you. Coming to say "this is sexist against men because I am feeling targeted" does nothing to further the conversation, except trying to put your own fears in front of others. This isn't the time or space for that! You should have that space absolutely! But I can't help you with your self esteem, lashing out at me because you feel targeted by my fears, is making your self esteem the target. When you are literally putting forward your sense of worth to be the focus of conversation as opposed to the system of patriarchy, then of COURSE you self esteem is affected.
So maybe stop injecting yourself into the conversation and focus on things that actually improve your life? Because I really doubt coming to this thread upset and angry did anything productive for ya.
If I were to say "I'd rather face down a bear than be near a black person," you'd rightfully call me a racist.
Nope, all it did was put me in contact with someone who wants to justify their own closed-minded bigotry by dismissing other people's lived experiences and further convince me that the world would be better off if I killed myself.
But fuck male fee fees, they're a myth anyway, right? There's no man that's safe to be around and society changes too slowly, so it's best for everyone that they should be quarantined or exterminated.
Your words. Not mine. I literally said the exact opposite SEVERAL TIMES.
Go reread your first comment in this thread. You literally came here to dismiss. I've also told you that your fears are valid, so I don't really see where you get off saying this.
Nope, and I am sorry you feel this way. The world is better with you in it. I survived my own suicide attempts a decade and my life is happier than I ever imagined. Please seek therapy, this isn't something the I or the internet can help you with.
I did my best to make this a productive discussion, I really have. I've met your anger with nuance and repeated validation. But I don't see how to proceed anymore. Please stop trying to invalidate womens lived experinces, and take your self esteem and self harm ideation to a professional.
There was no chance of a productive discussion with you because you're fully convinced that your mindset is the only valid one. Why else would you so completely dismiss the views of the people that are being actively harmed by this shit? You didn't want a discussion, you just wanted me to stop causing you cognitive dissonance so you can keep telling yourself you're right.
You're a bigot in an academic's clothes. This whole conversation, your slavish devotion to "the statistics" have made you sound like far-right-wingers do when they talk about Black people. "10% of the population but they commit 35% of the crime so I'm right to be afraid of them."
That's not the sentiment you've been conveying by lumping me and billions of other innocent men in with the small percentage of us that are subhuman filth.
Because it does not match observable reality.
Sorry, but I'm blocking you now because this doesn't seem healthy to engage with anymore. I'm sure you will take that as confirmation of me running away from "cognitive dissonance" but I can't in good consciousness be the outlet for your outbursts about ideation.
Please seek better ways of improving your self esteem than finding threads to be angry in. It's a form of self harm.
Im gonna be fair here and point out that I think he has a point: male on female sexual predation at least has some awareness and laws about it. Female on male is a hidden epidemic. Most countries don't legally recognize that men can even be raped.
And I've countlessly agreed that it is a problem and that any man has the right to feel upset and/or scared about it. Including and especially him. I just don't think that's a good basis for saying women are inherently sexist if they are wary of being alone with a random man. His logic is based that since he feels the need to "work on getting over it" (his words), women should get over it in regards to men. It's a false equivalency.
Without question the legal framework in a lot of countries is out of date and toxic masculinity traits that makes men uncomfortable with seeking help after assaults needs to be addressed. But that's a very different situation from the reason women feel unsafe around men, a NOT AT ALL HIDDEN epidemic.
Yea that much I agree with. I'm not going to 'work on overcoming' wariness of someone who is not only bigger and stronger than me but also more durable and faster and more coordinated and has a faster reaction time and even produces more adrenaline than I do.
Your "observable reality" is based on heavily skewed statistics and anecdotes.
I bet you have colorfully dyed hair.
...blonde? 😂 😂
Jesus you people and your stupid clichés, that's not even relevant but like a seesaw you have to do your one and only predictable little reaction.
Attack the point, not the person.