this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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We should not make heroes. People are falible, don't idolize them. You can of course still admire their work.
This is harder with artists though. They put more of themselves in their work and once you know an artist was an absolute cunt you can start seeing things in their art that you didn't before or experiencing it differently and don't like it anymore.
But if you still enjoy their work I think that's fine too. Especially if they are dead and can't profit from it, if they would profit from it I, personally, just pirate it and that keeps my conscience clean.
This is pretty close to something I've been saying for a while now in regards to the whole ActivisionBlizzard sexual misconduct thing any time someone brings up separating the art from the artist. You can easily do that with a book or a movie simply by going to a local library. And for many games through piracy like you said.
For a live service game like World of Warcraft there is no real way to experience it without supporting them, either monetarily or in their precious monthly active users metric they switched to after they stopped reporting on subscriber counts. In that kind of case the only real option is to walk away.
Aren't there still private servers available, or did they get those taken down via lawsuits/threats of lawsuits? Or did they kinda fade out after classic WoW became an official option? Regardless, you're right that with most live service games the only real option is to quit outright.
I'm sure they probably are still around, and would probably be decent for someone new to experience the content for themselves in an ethical way. But going that route for a long time player means giving up your current character that you've invested a lot of time into and any guild friend groups you are part of just so you can go play an approximation of an older version of the game. At that point it starts seeming like an addiction to me. Better to let the past go and seek out new experiences elsewhere.
I agree. I sucks sometimes, but it can also be a push to try new things or, specially if more people jump off, to recreate the good things of the old place in a new one (ehem..)
I like this approach.
I wrote in another commenr:
People with creative minds are more likely to push societal boundaries instead of just being happy in 9-5 jobs.
You want to call out and cancel every artist that’s not the ideal person, enjoy your white walls for entertainment.
I'm not gonna downvote you (yet) because maybe I'm not getting your point right, and I think you didn't get mine which was the exact opposite to your third paragraph. I meant that no one's perfect, and when you idolize them you create expectation that no one can match so sooner or later they'll going to let you down.
Now not being perfect or 'pushing societal boundaries', which many would argue is one of the purposes or even a requirement of art, is not the same as being a complete piece of shit. I'm not supporting with my hard earned money or with publicity anyone who I know is gonna use it to abuse others, or to scam, or rapists... but I hope these where not the kind of 'creative minds' you were talking about, are they?
I don't disagree with you, I just thought I'll add my point too.
You can boycott anyone and anything for any reason of course. I have my own peeves as well.
But I don't think it's good for society to just declare somebody so bad, that all of their personality, art and work has to be completely dismissed. When you're looking at a random painting or movie, you simply can't know what's behind it anyway. What would you do if you found that 99 of your top 100 movies were made by serial killers? And it's not just about art. Everything in modern society - technology, politics, medical science - has been shaped by suffering, and it still is.
People are complex creatures, both individually and as a society. We are all capable of insanely shitty things in circumstances. We can acknowledge that and include that knowledge in our future endeavour. Or we can cancel and erase bad things from history and invite them from happening again.
Btw this is my original comment where I took that bit from.
Oh sorry, I didn't read the original comment before answering. We seem to come from a similar place but I don't know that bit of the phone was like 'people died for you to have that phone so you can't say anything about murder' and that's not fair. For most of us the alternative to owning a phone is just misery. And even if we can't avoid causing misery to others by the mere act of existing, we can absolutely try to reduce it. Specially when, like here, we're not talking about martyrdom or big sacrifices. Not giving money to a scumbag artist can be at most a wee bit inconvenient. Or pushing for longer with your phones instead of getting a new one every other year.
I agree with you in this one comment. You can see someone's work and think it's brilliant, and then when the dark secrets are unearthed you can think the fucker's a monster, not incompatible at all. I think we should absolutely keep them on the books, but adding a footnote explaining how much of a cunt they were doesn't hurt.
And about the movies, I would still enjoy most of them probably. With some of them is possible that my experience is somehow affected by what I now know and some will fall off the chart. And a few of them I would exclaim 'I knew it!' Lol. But I will actively try not to give any money or publicity to the 99 of them
Re the phone thing. What I meant is that you can boycott whatever you wish, and try to convince me too I guess, but some people tend to go waaaaay too far.
Like with the recent thing about a Harry Potter game, when some people were absolutely bullish to anyone who wouldn't agree with their view, and if you'd say that that you'd buy the game regardless, they'd deem you a monster and cancel you too.
This may be an extreme example, but there's really this entire culture about cancelling and legacy erasing for... Anything at this point.
So first problem is that if there's barely any difference if I get cancelled and bullied for buying a video game or murdering someone, then what is the incentive to behave anymore? That's also my point in lots of other discussions, but I won't get into it.
Then as I said, the whole concept of how it's only okay to enjoy content of the right people. I just can't get behind that. It's natural to a degree, but let's not go too far.
So, it's not your case, but if someone becomes too loud regarding these things and how we're also accessories for willing to acknowledge Kevin Spacey as a good actor or whatever - then yea, I'll totally point at their phone and ask what's their position on that.
Besides, yet another issue is that all these anger campaigns are fads that fizzle out in a week, because it's not even about making a change, but appearing righteous. So maybe the footnote idea could work, as that way there would be at least some record of the whole affair.
I like your points. The only part I think that could still be debated is definition of an artist. Actors and singers are considered by many to be artists (though of course the definition of artist is subjective), and we are far more likely to recognize them in their art than we probably are to recognize, say, a painter or sculptor, thus making it harder not to idolize them as artists.
But I still agree with you.