this post was submitted on 28 Mar 2024
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I don't like her either, but that particular quote of hers is wonderful and casting her as Guinan because of it was inspired.
And she did a good job as Guinan whatever I think of her personally.
I mean Shatner is a total dick but I still love Kirk.
Meh, I think I for one can respect Shatner's "dickery."
As in-- he's a really good actor who never wanted to be typecast as Captain Kirk, and is rightfully a bit short with ST fans on average. OTOH, it's not like he goes out of his way to stir shit up or cast aspersions. More like he's typically wanted to be left alone by Trekkies & Trekkers, and I can understand that.
He's also taken the time to write a lot of interesting books, some of them biographical, some of them about ST, and also do an interview series.
I would never in a million years expect that I could walk up to a big star in public and expect to be treated like some long-lost friend of a fan. Some stars are amazingly good with that, but that's on them.
It's not about his reaction to fans. His Star Trek co-stars have a lot to say about how he was rude to them and just generally arrogant. He and Nimoy hated each other for years. They supposedly made up, but Shatner didn't attend his funeral. His excuse was he was scheduled to do a fundraiser.
They made up? Everything I've said showed that Nimoy died hating Shatner. Shatner was doing a Trek documentary and asked Nimoy to be part of it and Nimoy said no. So Shatner used footage of him anyway. Considering Shatner being, well, himself I wouldn't be surprised if Nimoy said fuck him after 40-30 years and walled the prick off.
Edit: Shatner said in his 2016 book that they never made up and never spoke for 5 years prior to his death. That book? About his supposed friendship with Nimoy.
Maybe I am misremembering. I thought they made up near the end of Nimoy's life.
I ended up checking on it. They didn't.
Shatner did ask for Nimoys consent to be part of The Captains and Nimoy said no. So Shatner sent someone to a convention to record him and ask questions. Nimoy found out and was enraged and never spoke with him again in the last 5 years of Nimoys life. Shatner revealed it himself in his 2016 book about his relationship with Nimoy. In it he still down plays it by said "it was so small".
What a shock. Shatner was an asshole again.
I fucking hate that man. It's why I am so insanely glad that I've gotten to spend a little time with a couple of my Trek heroes who are incredible people. Having Anthony Rapp on my PlayStation friend list? Glorious. I've messaged him so many times asking stupid DSC questions.
Oh nice, have you gamed with him at all?
I have not, we're both more into single player games. The dude is a beast though. 100%s or platinums every game he gets into. His trophy cabinet is just 100% and 2%. It's insane.
The idea of celebrities being gamers is just so weird to me. Such a different world than the one I grew up in.
I was thoroughly surprised when I found out but it makes sense. If you're always working, a good video game can really fill some of the time and help take you away. I just assumed Anthony was more of a theater geek (probably because of Rent) than a nerd and leaned more towards physical things to do.
Robin Williams was a huge gamer. He named his daughter Zelda because of the game.
You're in the ballpark with that stuff, but you're also significantly off on a lot by my readings and understandings. For example:
Shatner's co-stars were annoyed with him not because he was rude to them per se, but because he was a line-hog, which could actually cut in to their future opportunity & salaries because they had less content online via ST. I'm not trying to excuse that, but let's call the situation for what it is, and let's also not forget that he took ownership of that later on, and had good relationships with Nichols, Kelly, Nimoy, and Koenig, with Takei and Doohan scorning him.
Yes, he was arrogant, and I believe always was, but so are a tonne of leads, big stars, and very talented people. Yes, in an ideal world it wouldn't be like that, but... what are you going to do? Reinvent humanity?
He and Nimoy did NOT hate each other for any significant years AFAIK. In fact from my readings they clashed early, found a way to work it out, and were in fact fast friends for many decades until they had some kind of falling out late in Nimoy's life. Please let's not get it twisted, dude.
Takei has outright said, repeatedly, that Shatner was a prick. Not line hogging or bad directing. That he was actively a shitty person to be around in any form and that he didn't respect anyone around him. This is backed up by his having footage made of someone for a movie. Someone who, ahead of time, said he did not consent to the footage.
Just because other people are pricks does not give him a pass to be one. Plenty of people work in positions just like him and aren't nightmares to work with.
That some kind of falling out is what I just described above. Shatner was making a Trek documentary and asked Nimoy to be a part of it. Nimoy categorically said no. Shatner then discretely recorded footage of Nimoy anyway, against his consent, and used that footage in his movie. Nimoy was furious and never spoke to Shatner again. Shatner then wrote a book about his friendship with Nimoy where his name was almost as big on the cover as Nimoys. In the book he admitted to doing this and them not talking.
In that same book, Shatner demonstrates repeatedly why he's an asshole by such things as getting angry that Spock got more fan mail than him.l and says the only reason they had any basis of a friendship was because Shatner saw Nimoy be a hard ass with contract negotiations so they started negotiating together.
I have no problem with the accuracy of any of that, and appreciate you laying out the details based on your readings and knowledge.
For my part, putting this all together in to 'Shatner is a bad person' is going way too far. To me he's got his positive qualities and negative ones, and the negative ones mainly involve him being an asshole and little more. Well, I can live with that and appreciate his art and career no problem as opposed to people like Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein, who were obviously way, way more than just assholes to people.
Hollywood is filled with egoistic jackasses, and Shatner's behavior is just a blip on the radar to me. Not to mention, he's great fun to mock in certain ways! To wit, the greatest blog I've ever read: https://shatnerstoupee.blogspot.com/
Dude. The people he himself called friends also call him an unrepentant asshole and a bad person. If that doesn't make him a bad person, the people knowing him best calling him that, then I genuinely don't know what will prove he's a cunt to you.
You can enjoy someones art while being aware that they're a shitty person and just because Bill Cosby is worse doesn't give Shatner any passes either. The fact you're comparing the badness of people to dismiss Shatners shitty behavior is just mind boggling to me.
Okay, mister high & mighty, sinless judge of people,
go ahead and give your specific references, books and page numbers, interviews and timestamps with Shatner's colleagues calling him a 'bad and shitty person.'
Take your time, and I'll keep an open mind.
When that's done, I'll duly compare that to what I've read and heard from interviews, and attempt to fit the pieces together.
EDIT: And yeah, you sound utterly obsessed at this point. As if it was a nuclear disaster that someone didn't share your extremely negative take on Shatner.
This is your only warning. Keep it civil as per community rules. I don't appreciate being personally attacked because you disagree with me. I questioned you. I never attacked you like this. Either drop it or change this behavior.
So you're relentlessly attacking a 3rd person's character, and are now offended that I'm mildly mocking you as a response, asking you to share proof?
As a ~25 year admin and mod across various sites & projects, you disappoint me.
As I see you're a mod here, let me give you a suggestion-- be more professional and neutral, in future. Don't be both a community leader and someone who viciously tears in to one of the franchise's most beloved actors without proof, next time.
All I did was say be civil or drop it. I am being professional and neutral. If you are an admin and a mod then you should understand the basic responsibility one holds to make sure the rules are kept to. You actively violated the rules of this community. Accept responsibility for your actions and deal with the consequences of a warning. This is not a discussion about my moderator style or your credentials being something to excuse your behavior. It is a warning to stick to the rules of this community.
Moreover, if you wanted proof you could ask for it politely, respectfully and without any unnecessary ad hominem attacks against myself and I would be more than happy to provide the litany of evidence from his co stars as well as excerpts of his own book. Stuff that is abundantly well known, talked about consistently at conventions, by the actors themselves, and even have entire books written on the subject. You, however, never asked for it politely. Don't try to shift the goal posts. If you want to continue this discussion on a polite basis then I'm all for it but I am not going to be insulted and lectured.
You are playing up the 'ad hom' stuff like nobody I've ever seen before. It's gone from disappointment to embarrassment, frankly. Talk about a tiny bit of internet power being used to attack someone else, then hide behind the sub's 'rules.' And of course, sidestep actual facts to back up your argument.
The fact that you're so utterly clueless about all this indicates to me that you have a long ways to go towards being a self-aware, professional, neutral mod.
This will be my last reply to you on this matter, and of course you can do what you like with your mod toolbox. In any case, here's a suggestion to be better in future, and good luck to you.
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Shatner does not get a singular pass on the being left alone by Trekkies when he churns out as much ST stuff as he can to get paid. Like I'm not going to begrudge him for doing Trek stuff but he doesn't get to sit in the captains chair and whine about how people don't stop asking about the ship.