this post was submitted on 20 Mar 2024
155 points (83.5% liked)

politics

18866 readers
4215 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
  2. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  3. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  4. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
  5. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  6. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Maggoty 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Then when we looked at that, and determined it wasn’t true, you said average doesn’t count and we need to look at the median

No you tried some bullshit article with bad data. I showed you the charts they should have used. And explained that the average is heavily skewed because of high earners. That makes it a bad measure. I dare you to find an actual Economist arguing we should be releasing the Average instead of the Median.

Then when we broke it down into percentiles and showed that the median income was steady and income compared with inflation was going up at the bottom end of the pay scale, you started saying it needed to be by household instead of by individual

You showed old data. And According to the Census 2022 Report, those gains are gone. We did actually decrease the Gini for the first time since 2007. Then we undid it. "However, the post-tax Gini index was 3.2% higher due to substantial declines in post-tax income among lower-income households."

And yes. We measure by household because that's how people live. Unless your prescription for financial troubles is to tell Grandma it's time for her kill herself.

The average low-income person is now making more than they used to. They can buy more at the grocery store than they could even pre-Covid. To me, that is economic progress.

You never showed anything to prove this. And the BLS Preliminary Reports for 2023 don't paint much of a rosier picture. Production and Non-Supervisory employees broke even with CPI-U in 2023.

The deal here is I do not have the time, mental power, or inclination, to teach you statistics in economics on a forum. There are free classes available online that are at your own pace. And saying I'm moving the goalposts is hilarious. You're the one who keeps looking for cherrypicked data to support your conclusions. I don't have goalposts except, Inflation still sucks. 5 years later, 10 years later, 50 years later. Wake me up when Biden comes out and says we need (checks inflation calculator) a $12.37 minimum wage.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No you tried some bullshit article with bad data. I showed you the charts they should have used.

Not sure who you're trying to fool here; I think it's pretty much just you and me at this point. You know (or you should) that the numbers I sent you were from your own sources (OECD and the St. Louis Fed respectively). You can accept or not the explanation I gave for why I chose different charts in those sources... but just moving the goalposts around instead of addressing it head-on when that happens doesn't leave me with a real good impression of your goal in the overall conversation.

All the data we've seen actually paints a pretty consistent picture of a single coherent world; there aren't, like, big contradictions between different sources. It's just how any given person chooses to interpret the information.

The deal here is I do not have the time, mental power, or inclination, to teach you statistics in economics on a forum.

🙂

Buddy

Only other thing I'll add is:

Wake me up when Biden comes out and says we need (checks inflation calculator) a $12.37 minimum wage.

January 2022 along with an executive order putting it into practice for all federal workers.

[–] Maggoty 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Those charts were for the article. And no. That's not how statistics works. These aren't special interest sites, one stat does not over rule another stat. You use the right stat for the right thing. You cannot say the working class is doing better while the production and nonsupervisory pay numbers and Census median income numbers don't support that.

And yeah I missed that, EO. That's great. To be fair I'm also remembering he nearly got a federal 15 minimum but for Kyrsten Sinema.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

I want to try an experiment

Can you summarize my argument back to me? Like what I was saying and what sources I drew on to support it and how? There was one central thesis, and I supported that thesis from one of my sources and from both of yours. I'm gonna give you from 1-5 stars depending on how accurately you describe it. You don't have to agree with it or how I justified it, just show that you understood what I was saying.