Linux

48655 readers

1401 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
No misinformation
No NSFW content
No hate speech, bigotry, etc

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

680

Proton Mail Finally Releases Desktop Apps With a Linux Beta Version (news.itsfoss.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

255 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

https://github.com/ProtonMail

glhf

[–] timewarp 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

None of those actually document their API nor provide source for the backend server code. Other than building hydroxide from PRs for CalDav, are there even any other open source implementations of CardDav/CalDav for Proton? I can't find a single implementation of Proton Pass that allows you to sync your passwords locally and be used in a different app. There is no shortage of people complaining about this:

https://protonmail.uservoice.com/forums/932842-proton-calendar/suggestions/8985673-cardav-caldav-support https://brainbaking.com/post/2023/01/goodbye-protonmail/ https://minutestomidnight.co.uk/blog/email-migration-from-proton-to-mailbox/

Why would anyone be interested in efforts on a platform with a closed-source backend and that is not developer focused? Not to mention, entirely unnecessary why you should have to use a bridge gateway in the first place with IMAPS & PGP/GPG, CalDav & CardDav. Like I said, Proton is engaged in some questionable practices.

[–] sudneo 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Why would anyone be interested in efforts on a platform with a closed-source backend and that is not developer focused?

Because most people don't care about those particular things. Almost all the world uses completely proprietary tools (Gmail) that also violate your privacy.

Not to mention, entirely unnecessary why you should have to use a bridge gateway in the first place with IMAPS & PGP/GPG, CalDav & CardDav. Like I said, Proton is engaged in some questionable practices.

It's not unnecessary, it's the result of a technical choice. A winning technical choice actually. PGP has a negligible user-base, while Proton has already 100 million accounts. I would be surprised if there were 10 million people actually using PGP. They sacrificed the flexibility and composability of tools (which results almost always in complexity) and made an opinionated solution that works well enough for the mainstream population, who has no interest in picking their tools and simply expects a Gmail-like experience.

And if you really have stringent requirements, they anyway provided the bridge, so that you can have that flexibility if it's really important for you.

IMAPS & PGP/GPG, CalDav & CardDav

IMAPs is just IMAP on TLS, so it does not have anything to do with e2ee in this context.
PGP/GPG is what they use. They just made a tool that is opinionated and just works, rather than one which is more flexible but also more complex. Good choice? Bad choice? It's a choice.
*DAV clients expect cleartext data on the server. If you encrypt the data, you need to build all this logic into the clients, and you are not following the standard anymore, which means you will anyway be bound to your client only (and those which implement compatibility). Proton decided that they want to implement e2ee calendar, and they decided to roll their own thing. It's up to everyone to decide whether e2ee is a more important feature than interoperability with other tools. I don't care about interoperability, for example, and I'd take e2ee over that.

[–] timewarp -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

IMAPs is just IMAP on TLS, so it does not have anything to do with e2ee in this context.

If you use GnuPG or one of the GUI implementations it does.

You do realize e2ee merely means that two users share public keys when they communicate in order to decrypt the messages they receive, right?

*DAV clients expect cleartext data on the server. If you encrypt the data, you need to build all this logic into the clients, and you are not following the standard anymore, which means you will anyway be bound to your client only (and those which implement compatibility).

You're talking about people paying for cloud services that manage everything for them. Nothing to stop you from hosting your own on an encrypted drive. EteSync does E2E already, and there is already a plethora of apps supporting PGP on Android and Desktop to encrypt/decrypt messages.

[–] sudneo 1 points 9 months ago

If you use GnuPG or one of the GUI implementations it does.

No, because it's the server that terminates the TLS connection, not the recipient's client. TLS is purely a security control to protect the transport between you and the server you are talking to. It doesn't have anything to do with e2ee. It's still important, of course, but not for e2ee.

You do realize e2ee merely means that two users share public keys when they communicate in order to decrypt the messages they receive, right?

And how does TLS between you and your mail server help with this? Does it give you any guarantee that the public key was not tampered when it reached your server? Or instead you use the fingerprint, generally transmitted through another medium to verify that?

Nothing to stop you from hosting your own on an encrypted drive.

An encrypted drive is useful only when the server is off against physical attacks. While the server is powered on (which is when it gets breached - not considering physical attacks) the data is still in clear.

EteSync does E2E already

And...it requires a specialized client anyway. In fact, they built a DAV bridge (https://github.com/etesync/etesync-dav). Now tell me, if you use this on -say- your phone, can you use other DAV tools without using such bridge? No, because it does something very similar to what Proton does. If proton bridge will get calendar/contacts functionality too (if, because I have no idea how popular of a FR it is), you are in the exact same situation.