Islamic Leftism

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Welcome to Islamic Leftism, a space for muslims leftists.

Lemmygrad rules apply:

No capitalist apologia / anti-communism.
No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
Be respectful. This is a safe space where all comrades should feel welcome, this includes a warning against uncritical sectarianism.
No porn or sexually explicit content (even if marked NSFW).
No right-deviationists (patsocs, nazbols, strasserists, duginists, etc).
No class reductionism

Rules for Islamic leftism:

No discrimination against other faiths or to those who lack it
No uncritical judging, always look for the cause of things before doing judgement
No compulsion in acceptance of the religion, if someone decides to leave or enter Islam let them for Allah is all-Knowing all-Wise and all-Forgiving
No takfir ( excommunication ) against the innocent believers or other persons who don't share the same beliefs or ideas
No treachery, show kindness to others even if they are mean to you
Be always open to different jurisprudence or schools in Islam
No discrimination against different schools or sects in the religion and outside of it. Is better to be united and in harmony
Be respectful to eachother be it religious or non-religious, believer or non-believer

All of you are welcomed to join

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Gay universalism, homoracialism and « marriage for all » (www.decolonialtranslation.com)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I was debating whether to insert this within LGBT+ or Islamic Leftism but I do think ultimately it might fit here better because it covers the specific experience of French indigènes, which makes it more relevant here.

I feel like in these sort of online Islamic “progressive” spaces, there’s no genuine discussions happening. These spaces are often almost defensive in nature - like the existence of this community is just to prove to disapproving whites that Islam isn’t this, or isn’t that. This is a result of being in a Western dominated space in general.

Gender and sexual minorities is a very important phenomenon that must require a response, yet it is almost ignored or never spoken about because this muslim-homophobia dichotomy is so engrained that people are (rightfully) scared to even talk about it, especially across the White left.

I’d of course invite everyone to treat this article critically, and contribute if you have any qualms against their conclusions, although I will admit my opinions have slowly drifted closer to the article as the years went by.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know being queer isn't a disease lol. I am queer. The point I was trying to make is that our beliefs about gender and sexuality are informed by our particular culture and they do not necessarily carry over to other cultures.

You say it's obvious what gay people are, but is it really? The word "homosexual" is only about 100 years old yet you speak about it as if it were an innate characteristic of humanity. And I don't mean that in a "people only started experiencing same-sex attraction recently" kind of way. I mean that the way we understand human sexuality is invented. And that the words westerners came up with don't translate well to other cultures.

Also, the paragraph following that quote clarifies the author's position. Which is that we should allow for and encourage colonized peoples to develop their own societies and create their own norms regarding sexuality in their own time. And let them define and redefine their own language because the heterosexual/homosexual binary was imposed on them by westerners, which is why they often reject movements by them even when they're arguably good.

Btw when I mentioned saving gay people, I was thinking about libs who want to go to war against this or that country because their people are deemed homophobic. I wasn't referring to this org in specific.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Oh, I didn’t mean that as in “queer is a disease”, but moreso it doesn’t have some detailed diagnostic criteria, like a condition or disease would. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

But yes, it is very obvious what gay people are this is a thing that people have identified and defined clearly, it is not some abstract philosophical concept, and it is absolutely an innate characteristic of humanity. As even the author states how homosexuality has been present in human society for all of recorded history, and even further with archeological evidence.

Also if they still doesn’t answer to why the author believes that the west is forcing migrants to be gay, or why that’s phrased as a bad thing (no matter how absurd it is).

Lastly, religion and societal development is not an excuse for homophobia and oppression. Especially if even for reasons outside of their control, migrants travel to the west, and then take up arms against societal standards such lgbt acceptance. Especially when members of that migrant community come out as lgbt. The community cannot just say “Oopsie, we’re not ready yet, back in the closet”. That’s basically what they’re saying, they’re acting like the concept that there are lgbt members in “working class migrant communities” is laughable and some absurd notion, they straight say that marriage equality for gay infidividuals is something they are against and would cut their leftist allies off over, and that their communities are near devioud of LGBT influence except for dastardly western imperialist influence.They are living in some bizarre wonderland that they’ve constructed specifically to tailor to their worldview. Even though it is devious of reality.

Also there is not a homosexual/heterosexual binary in the modern day lgbt community, escept for deranged conservatives. That’s the entire point of the pansexual and bisexual orientations just to name a few.

Overall, I agree with most of your points and concepts, but you’re still playing a post hoc defense for an author who is most obviously not as charitable as you, and I doubt believe the things you are trying say. Hence their reactionary and extremely bizarre language and strances in several topics (hence my original post).

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Hmm I'm not sure you're picking up what I'm putting down. I'm saying that "homosexuality" is a relatively new concept (so is "heterosexuality" btw). It's a word that people of the distant past definitely did not use and definitely did not identify with. It's a word that many people of the present don't identify with either, even if you can make the argument that they fit the criteria. But really, what does it matter? The goal of queer liberation should be to free people from discrimination, not to force all cultures to subscribe to the same notion of gender and sexuality.

I don't know why you think the author is making excuses for homophobia. And I don't think they meant to imply that straight and gay are the only sexual orientations (they say LGBT a lot and bisexual is right there in the acronym). I'm not trying to play defense for this person, I don't know who they even are, but it feels like we've read completely different articles ngl :s

Anyway, I interpreted the author as saying that white people need to meet indigenous people where they're at & allow their communities to deal with their social issues in their own way, at their own pace. And that it's unacceptable for white people to demand them to change according to white standards. Especially when those same white people are apathetic to all their other economic and political concerns.

Like, if you've had to live with police brutality, unemployment, and homelessness all your life, would you believe that an outside movement to protect the gay rights of your community is sincere? When that movement is led by the very same people who subjugate you in the first place?