this post was submitted on 29 Feb 2024
71 points (97.3% liked)

Linguistics

503 readers
12 users here now

Welcome to the community about the science of human Language!

Everyone is welcome here: from laymen to professionals, Historical linguists to discourse analysts, structuralists to generativists.

Rules:

  1. Stay on-topic. Specially for more divisive subjects.
  2. Post sources whenever reasonable to do so.
  3. Avoid crack theories and pseudoscientific claims.
  4. Have fun!

Related communities:

founded 10 months ago
MODERATORS
 

This is not bad

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] AbouBenAdhem 10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Wait, Italian “ciao” is derived from (medieval) Latin “sclavus”/slave?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, albeit indirectly - Italian borrowed it from Venetian sciao /stʃao/, that underwent the following sound changes:

  • Latin /kl/ ⟨CL⟩ → */kj/ → Venetian /tʃ/. Regular.
  • Latin /wu/ ⟨VV⟩ → Venetian /o/. Sometimes it fortifies to /vo/ instead, but there are other words where this happens (see e.g. pavonem "peacock" → paon)

Then Italian dropped the /s/ in the borrowing because, while /stʃ/ is a legal cluster in Venetian, it isn't in Italian.

The semantic shift might look weird, but it pops up also in Austro-Bavarian and German "servus!" (hello) and Polish "serwus" (hello). Wiktionary mentions that the German greeting is from Mediaeval "seruus humillimus, domine spectabilis"; or "[I am a] humble servant, o notable lord", odds are that Venetian "sciao" is the same.

Note that the purely native Italian cognate would be schiavo /skjavo/ "slave".

EDIT: Dieguito answered as I wrote this answer, but I'm keeping it for further info.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

I like yours better, your answer is far more extensive with explanation of the whole word and comparison with other languages.

About the "sc" pattern [st͡ʃ]: it is very peculiar of the Venetian dialect but is not present in standard Italian: another example would be "mas'cio” (meaning "pig" or "male") from Latin "masculus" > *masclus > maschio (as in Italiano) > mas'cio.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yes, passing through the Venetian vulgar where the "cla" cluster which evolved to modern Italian "-chia-" [ki̯a] is further palatalized to "cia" [t͡ʃa].

The original salute was meaning is "I am at your command". In that region we still today, even it it's rare / something that only elderly people do, use the form "mandi", derived from "comandi" (i.e. again "at your commands").